[Interview Transcript from the book "Psychedelic Psounds"] 13TH FLOOR ELEVATORS: PSYCHEDELIC SOUNDSThe 13th Floor Elevators. To many the name means nothing. To a small segment of the musical world, however, the group is a legend of almost mythic proportions.There are a number of reasons why they are considered legendary, yet the Elevators main claim to fame is that they are generally considered the Fathers of Psychedelic Music. This claim may be arguable, but no one can deny that any other band took psychedelic music to their hearts and souls and minds like the Elevators.The testimoney to this is their classic first album, The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators, which was released in 1966. It was atypical of any previous album. It contained songs which were primarily written around drug-related lyrics and intersected with philosophy, religion, love, and death as well as adolescent and social naivete. It was an album that combined psychedelics and music to ask questions about existence and looking at the world "through brand new eyes."To make an entire album that is primarily written around drugs would have been commercial suicide for practically any record label. Yet this album was made---although not in California and not in England ---but in Texas by an ambitious record company in Houston called International Artists.The 13th Floor Elevators formed as a band in Austin, Texas in late 1965. Tommy Hall, a University of Texas philosophy/psychology student, had been experimenting with psychedelics as well as playing the jug in a folk band. Hall came up with the unique idea of placing a microphone next to his jug which created a very unusual sound. He could see that combining his electric jug with psychedelic lyrics opened up a strange new territory; and it could be pioneered if he could just find the right musicians.Tommy Hall found the backing musicians he needed in a Third Coast band from the Port Aransas-Rockport area called the Lingsmen: Stacy Sutherland (lead guitar), Benny Thurman (bass), and John Ike Walton (drums). The missing link was Roky Erickson.Erickson was seventeen when he had written and released a local Top Ten single with The Spades (August 1965/zero Records) called "You're Gonna Miss Me." Erickson was not only an accomplished rhythm guitarplayer, but possessed one of the most powerful and dynamic voices ever heard on vinyl or in concert.The group decided to call themselves the 13th Floor Elevators which was based on the non-existent floor that was left out of high-rise buildings by superstitious contractors. The Elevators were really going to a level where no one had gone before.The Elevators eventually signed with International Artists and in August 1966 released the classic (not just the music, but its cover and liner notes as well) The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators. The album starts out with the garage band classic "You're Gonna Miss Me" which reached #56 and would become their highest charting single. The album also included such great psychedelic songs as "Roller Coaster," "Kingdom of Heaven," Reverberation (Doubt)," and "Splash 1."Yet even before a second album had been attempted, internal friction and drug problems forced the departure of John Ike Walton and Benny Thurman. Replacements were found in Danny Thomas (drums) and Ronnie Leatherman (bass) although Leatherman only lasted until July 1967 to be replaced by Danny Galindo.This unit entered the studio for two months to cut the worthy follow- up album Easter Everywhere (Sept. 1967). It contained an eight minute poem of exquisite beauty entitled "Slip Inside This House" as well as "Postures (Leave Your Body Behind)" and a great cover of Dylan's "Baby Blue."The Elevators did a good deal of touring (most notably in California) that included an appearance on the Dick Clark show. When the Elevators had finished their song, Dick Clark innocently asked Roky, "Who is the head of the band?" Roky's response was, "We're all heads."The Elevators were having a rough time of it in Texas as they were constantly being harrassed by the police and the Texas Rangers. The penalty at that time for being caught with one joint was twenty years in jail. The first time the Elevators were busted they were not prosecuted due to a technicality, but a second bust occurred at a state university with Roky being ordered to stand trial.The defense attorney decided a plea of insanity (based on Roky's altered state) would be less harsh for his client, but the result was a five year sentence. Roky would spend the next three and a half years at a mental institution called Rusk State Hospital.For all intents and purposes the Elevators, without Roky who was their figurehead and unofficial leader, were finished. International Artists tried to capitalize on what success the Elevators had by releasing The 13th Floor Elevators Live album (January 1968) which was essentially studio outtakes that were overdubbed with phony cheering and applause. The last Elevator album to appear was Bull of the Woods (December 1968) that was primarily the effort of Stacy Sutherland.The Elevators tried to get back together several times after Roky's release, but an ongoing feud between Roky and Tommy never seemed to get resolved. The death of Stacy Sutherland (killed in a domestic squabble with his wife in 1978) confirmed the Elevators existence was officially over.Except for a bizarre single called "Red Temple Prayer (Two-Headed Dog)" that was released in 1975, Roky's sabbatical would last thirteen years. Roky Erickson returned with a superb album in 1980 based on B-grade horror movie material called Roky Erickson and the Aliens (August 198O/CBS-U.K.) It was produced by Stu Cook (ex-bass player for Creedence Clearwater Revival) and included such great songs as "Creature with the Atom Brain," "Cold Night for Alligators," "Stand for the Fire Demon," and "I Walked with a Zombie."Roky continued to make several more interesting albums throughout the 198Os, but his mental condition seemed to be deteriorating. Then in 1989 he was charged with the federal crime of tampering with the U.S. Mail---apparently he collected mail for an apartment complex and never gave it to the addressees. Consequently, he went to court where the judge did not believe that Roky had a mental condition and had him sent to Misouri for "testing." It was decided that he wasn't entirely lucid after shooting him full of chemicals, but by now Roky had snapped.It should be noted that of all the times I have interviewed Roky he has always been gracious even thought his responses have often been "out there in left field." Many times I thought what he said during an interview was total nonsense, but during the transcribing of the tape I could indeed make sense of his answers.That has all changed now. My last interview with Roky (November 1991) proved to be an exercise in futility with hardly any response making sense. Roky smoked continuously and appeared paranoid and schizophrenic throughout the taping. It was more like "I Talked with a Zombie" and it made me sad to see him in this totally unsane condition. (The end part of the interview will provide an example.) Strangely enough, seeing Roky in this condition made me think when I saw him sing in a punk rock club in Houston called The Island in 1981. Roky came onstage looking like he only came out at night---whiter than white skin, bloodshot eyes, a furrowed brow, and long brownish-gray hair that didn't appear to have been combed in ages. Yet when he opened his mouth I couldn't believe my ears. It was the most incredibly powerful voice I had ever heard!The 13th Floor Elevators may well be the greatest tragedy in rock and roll history; yet when I play the Elevators' music and hear the power and energy of Roky's vocals, I can't help but think of the Elevators as they were in the 6Os at the height of their powers. This is how I want to remember the 13th Floor Elevators, forever young musically, as they levitate toward the ceiling, with Roky singing, "I Don't Want to Ever Come Down."The interview with the 13th Floor Elevators was conducted on the following dates: November 1981 (phone interview with Roky Erickson); October 1982 (tape recorder session of Roky Erickson answering questions during a seminar at the Houston Record Fair); a post-seminar interview was conducted with Roky Erickson the same day; November 1984 (interview with Roky Erickson); November 1991 (interview with Roky Erickson, Danny Galindo, and Tary Owen at Tary Owen's residence in Austin, Texas); February 1992 (interview with Powell St. John); April 1992 (interview with Clementine Hall).NOTE: Tary Owen was an original member of the Conqueroo and is the unofficial caretaker of Roky Erickson. Powell St. John played with the Conqueroo as well as Mother Earth and provided several songs which the Elevators recorded. While neither Tary Owens nor Powell St. John were members of the 13th Floor Elevators, both were part of the Austin music scene and provided invaluable insights for this interview. The following are the initials used for the interviewees: Roky Erickson (RE); Danny Galindo (DG); Powell St. John (PS); Tary Owens (TO); and Clementine Hall (CH).
AV: How did you first become involved in music?RE: My mother (Evelyn Erickson) was a singer who was with the University-of Texas Opera Workshop in 1954 and sang in the local church choir from 1947 to 1964. She won the Arthur Godfrey's Talent Content in Austin for singing the aria of Verdi's "La Traviata" in 1957. She then auditioned in Dallas, but Godfrey got cancer and the show was cancelled. Around 1958 I remember she cut a single "Oh, Holy Night"/"Silent Night" for a small label called Echo. She was a great influence as far as singing.When I was four or five years old, before I could read, my mother had me take piano lessons from a neighbor called Alma Jean Ward. 1 also remember when I was about eight or ten years old that she took lessons on how to play the guitar. Then she would run home and teach my brothers and I how to play the two or three chords she had learned.
AV: Who were the musicians that influenced you?RE: Little Richard and James Brown both influenced me. James Brown once played in Austin where he started playing his organ---this is meant as a compliment---and it just horrified me. I was scared to death listening to him because he was so involved with his organ playing. And the way he screamed, I couldn't believe it!I've also been influenced by Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, and John MayaII and the Bluebreakers. If you get a chance listen to MayaIl because it has the hardest blues. I also like John Lee Hooker and Albert King.PS: I was at that concert with Roky and Tommy. Roky was definitely blown away. I believe that they were in some kind of altered state at that show, but I can't say what they might have taken.
AV: Please discuss the formation and the members of The Spades. Was this your first group and how did you select the group's name?RE: I can't remember too much about The Spades. John Kerney was the drummer. We used to practice at my mom's house. I think we first played at a high school talent show.TO: Roky apparently either was kicked out or dropped out of high school (Travis High School in Austin, TX.) for having long hair.I don't know how they got their name, but I heard Roky singing with The Spades around 1965. Roky formed The Spades with kids he went to school with and taught them all how to play. Roky basically taught himself how to play guitar.
AV: What were the circumstances behind The Spades' recording of Roky's "You're Gonna Miss Me" for Zero Records in 1966 and how well did it sell locally?TO: "You're Gonna Miss Me" sold pretty well and made the local Top Ten. It also made Roky and The Spades very popular.
AV: The Lingsmen (who were from the Port Aransas-Rockport area) was a band that included Stacy Sutherland (lead guitar), Benny Thurman (electric violin and bass), John Ike Walton (drums) and Max Rainey (vocals). How did The Lingsmen get together with Roky Erickson and Tommy Hall?PS: All I know is that the Lingsmen were in Rockport and Tommy and Clementine brought them together with Roky.TO: One of the people I knew was Tommy Hall who was a psychology major at the University of Texas. Originally, we had a band called St. John and the Conqueroo Roots. The band members included Powell St. John on harmonica, Tommy Hall played jug, Charlie Pritchard played banjo, Ed Guinn was on clarinet, and I played rhythm guitar. Powell and I handled most of the singing.We were playing old time blues music, but when the electric thing came along it introduced Tommy to rock. Tommy was also taking a lot of acid at this time. I had given Tommy an old ceramic jug and he came up with the idea of doing it with electricity. He would hold the microphone next to the jug and blow into the microphone with a real high pitch. I believe Tommy knew the Lingsmen and decided immediately to form a band. Tommy brought Stacy and Benny and John Ike from the Lingsmen and introduced them to Roky. Within two weeks they had formed the Elevators and started writing songs and doing material.
AV: Did Tommy and Roky know each other before this?RY: Yes. I previously had brought Tommy down to the Jade Room to see Roky sing when he was still with The Spades.AV: Did the Conqueroo mind losing Tommy Hall?RY: Tommy wasn't that big of a deal to lose since he didn't add much to it at the time. We weren't that close of a band and we were just playing for fun. 1 left the band right after Tommy did whereupon the band went electric and became one of the top psychedelic bands in the area. When Powell left to go to California they dropped St. John out of the name and it became just the Conqueroo. The Conqueroo also played a lot of gigs with the Elevators.Incidentally, the band's name is a voodoo word used in Louisiana black magic. Conqueroo is a type of root plant used as a talisman or charm.
AV: The Austin American newspaper reported that Roky Erickson left The Spades on 12/1/1965 and later stated on 12/9/1965 that Roky had formed the 13th Floor Elevators. What do you remember about this?TO: Jim Langdon was the local music writer for the Austin American Statesmen and he wrote a column called "Nightbeat" which was about who was playing where. Langdon was a jazz musician who had a good ear. When he first heard Roky he had never heard of a white kid who could sing like James Brown and do that kind of screaming. Langdon was the first writer to announce Roky Erickson had left The Spades (on 12/1/1965) and the first to state (on 12/9/1965) that Roky's new band would be called the 13th Floor Elevators. The Elevators first gig was around the middle of December in a place called the Jade Room. Langdon invited me to come hear the 13th Floor Elevators play so we went down to hear this new band. They had already written several of their own songs including "Tried to Hide." I liked what I heard and started telling my friends about Roky and the Elevators.
AV: I have heard various stories about how the group chose its name. John Ike Walton told me that he originally suggested The Elevators one evening and the next day Tommy's wife Clementine came up with the 13th Floor Elevators. What is the correct story on how the group chose its name?TO: Yeah, Clementine added 13th Floor after John Ike suggested the Elevators.PS: I don't know how this occurred, but that there is a disagreement over how it happened comes as no surprise. The Waltons and the Halls were at loggerheads almost from the beginning.CH: There has been a lot of confusion about who actually named the group the 13th Floor Elevators, but I clearly remember how it happened. I was sitting in our bedroom with Tommy when he asked me what they should call the band. I suggested the Elevators to Tommy, not only because the band was making psychedelic music, but because I thought it would sound like a black band who had names like the Miracles or the Temptations. We would always listen to R &amp; B groups, especially at this one place where we always ate barbecue.A few days later Tommy came back and said the rest of the band liked the suggestion of the Elevators, but they thought it wasn't long enough. It was then that I suggested the 13th Floor Elevators. Adding 13th Floor to the name Elevators provided various interpretations. The most obvious being the thirteenth floor was nonexistent in the older high rise buildings. "M" is also the thirteenth letter in the alphabet and so "M" could stand for marijuana. Thirteen is, and always has been, my lucky number.
AV: Tommy Hall's lyrics presented a different way of looking at the world through music. He provided a strange intellectual brew that combined drugs, philosophy, and religion which was stirred by the echoes from his electric jug. How would you describe his philosophy?
AV: Was it Tommy Hall who came up with the idea to use psychedelic lyrics and put it to music?PS: I would credit Tommy Hall with that idea. Of course Tommy was a big Bob Dylan fan so the idea may not have been completely original with him.
AV: Since Tommy Hall was older than Roky and the other guys in the band, did he have a Svengali-type influence? I've heard he may have pushed some of the band members into a direction that maybe they shouldn't have gone or perhaps a little bit too far.CH: This was a problem of a more serious nature and has to do with the so called "on-going feud" between Roky and Tommy. Roky and Tommy were mad about each other and everybody loved one another in the beginning.Tommy was the adult sage; Roky was the child-like student. Sparks would fly because Tommy wanted Roky to be more adult-like while Roky wanted Tommy to be more father-like. Tommy could get very mature, very staid, almost cold in his approach to Roky.TO: Tommy was a manipulator and frankly I never trusted him. I had second thoughts as soon as I introduced him to Roky that this might not be a good thing. Tommy used acid to manipulate the rest of that band, but it wasn't in a violent direction. Tommy wasn't a violent person and he thought he was doing the right thing. He thought drugs were the key to the universe. They were all into this acid-disillusional thing. It affected Roky the most, but there wasn't a single person in that band that wasn't physically and/or mentally damaged by what happened back then.Our generation took a lot of drugs and to some extent we were damaged by the trips we took. We thought we were going to change the world for the better. We thought we found Better Living Through Chemistry. It turned out the drugs did open the door to spirituality for some of us, but it also opened the door to death and destruction. The drugs stopped being our friends and became our enemies.
AV: What can you tell us about Tommy Hall and Roky Erickson in the early days?CH: I was born in 1939 and was the daughter of a military family (Col. Egan Tausch) that traveled all over the world. I married at seventeen and had two children (Laura and Roland) by the time I was nineteen, but I knew very little of the world until l met Tommy Hall.It was around 1963 when I met Tommy. I was an English major and planned to do my thesis on the metaphysical poets such as John Donne. Yet it was Tommy who was the true poet.Hardly a day goes by that I don't think of one of his lyrics which helps me face each day. For example, Tommy's lyrics from "Slip Inside This House" have always been uplifting and positive for me: "Everyday's another dawning/Give the morning wind a chance/Always catch your thunder yawning/Lift your mind into the dance/Sweep the shadows from your awning/Shrink the four-fold circumstance/That lies outside this house/Don't pass it by." Tommy was a brilliant poet whose creativity seemed almost unending and boundless. I think it was Mozart who said that his "tunes came straight from God." Tommy was just like that. He seemed to jump from mountain top to mountain top while the rest of us had to climb up and down to get to where he was.Roky Erickson was the same way with melodies. Roky would come up with the music on an acoustic guitar which would be recorded on a very small tape. Roky would give Tommy the tape who would take the tape back to our place and he would write the lyrics around Roky's melodies.The songs were natural, even organic in the sense there was no formal structure. This is how we felt about making music and it was also a reflection of the band as a whole.The Elevators were like one big happy family, at least in the beginning. I knew and loved all the guys intimately but never in the physical sense. The only person I truly loved in the band was my husband, but I dearly loved all the other members in the band, almost like a mother hen. 1 suppose this was partly due to our difference in age since I was about twenty-six, Tommy was twenty-four and Roky was eighteen when the Elevators started playing in 1965.I adored Roky. He always had this child-like quality about him.And girls used to throw themselves at him. I got to know Roky intimately from turning on with him. There were evenings when Tommy would fall asleep and Roky and I would stay up all night and talk about whatever topic came up. Quite often these sessions would include John Kerney (Roky's best friend and former drummer in The Spades) and his girlfriend Susan. John and Susan later married and were always great friends with us.
AV: Tommy Hall supposedly turned the Elevators onto LSD. Do you remember the first time you did LSD, Roky?RE: No, I can't remember.
AV: Do you feel LSD expanded your consciousness in any way?RE: It is what it is.CH: There was a lot of drug use going on, but this was part of Tommy's philosophy of exploring our brave new world through music. Music was our diary to capture what we were experiencing. Yet Tommy never believed in any drugs that he considered destructive such as heroin or speed or any drug that required a needle. This was partly due to Tommy and the band's estrangement from Benny who had gotten heavily into speed.Tommy believed that if the Indians had been doing natural drugs for 500 years or so then there were no harmful effects. This meant that drugs like peyote, mushrooms, marijuana, and hashish were acceptable with LSD being a natural extension.
AV: What was that "funny little sound" in the background of the 13th Floor Elevators' songs?RE: It's an amplified jug. Have you ever heard of the Jim Kweskin Jug Band? They used a jug, but they didn't put a mike to it. Since you can't put an amplifier on it or a little pick-up, then Tommy thought about putting a microphone right next to it.PS: Tommy Hall was a peripheral figure in the folk music scene at the University of Texas. Folk music was the "in" thing on college campuses in the early 60s and jug bands were a part of this. As the scene shifted toward electric music the electric jug was a logical step.
AV: There was an album released in 1980 that was titled Epitaph of a Legend which was a collection of songs by groups that recorded for the International Artists label. It said the jug that Tommy used was full of some kind of herb.RE: It might have been. It was a real hard to find antique pottery jug.AV: I believe he held a microphone next to the jug that made the actual "chuga-chuga" sound and never actually blew into the jug as many assume.TO: That's true. He could have done it without the jug. The jug was a prop. He could have done it with just the microphone, but it looked more like an instrument on stage and there was some resonance coming out of the jug.AV: Do you recall how Tommy came up with that idea?TO: He was a fan of jazz music and it was jazz scat, like Charlie Parker, taking it and running on top of the music.
AV: Benny Thurman played electric fiddle for the Lingsmen. What was the reason that he switched to bass and why didn't he play electric fiddle with the Elevators?TO: Benny played regular fiddle when the Lingsmen played bluegrass while John Ike played banjo and Stacy played acoustic guitar. When the Lingsmen switched to rock and roll John Ike played drums and Benny played bass. Later on Benny played electric violin, but with the Elevators he played bass guitar.
AV: Do you remember what it was like the first time the Elevators jammed? Where did they practice?TO: I think they practiced at Tommy's place. Tommy had an apartment at 909 West 22nd Street. My wife and I also lived in that same building although later Tommy moved out to 38 1/2 Street.
AV: Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top has stated (Washington Post article by Richard Leiby on 6/23/1991) that "the Elevators sound was unititiated by outside sources. Essentially, a new sound was created like nothing heard before or since. How could these guys (who in 1965 were in the middle of Texas in an atmosphere that was conservative/country/redneck/Baptist) come up with this sound?TO: One thing was that they were all incredibly talented musicians and the other thing was drugs. You can talk about the negative influence of acid, but there was a positive influence initially. The use of drugs made some magic happen to help make that music, but the Elevators were also incredibly talented musicians. Roky is probably the finest white rock and roll singer that has ever come out of Texas. Stacy Sutherland was raised in Kerrville and is one of the great guitar players of Texas---perhaps more so than Billy Gibbons---who is very much under-appreciated. John Ike Walton was an excellent drummer and Benny Thurman was an excellent bass player. They were great musicians.Stacy had this Duane Eddy-type guitar that had a high reverb and real strong bass lines, yet Stacy came up with his own sound. Stacy's guitar helped set up Roky's voice and the little weird noises that Tommy made through the jug. They wrote their own material, but they were also a great cover band. They could do covers better than the originals. Roky and Tommy have received most of the recognition for the success of the Elevators, but I also think Stacy has never received credit on how much he contributed to the musical sound of the band.CH: In all honesty, Stacy was a musician's musician; he practically lived with his guitar. It must have been upsetting to him to take a backseat to Tommy's jug and was why Stacy felt the jug shouldn't be used as much, at least not on every song. Yet the direction of the band and most of the lyrics were primarily due to Tommy. It should be noted that when the mix was right between the jug and guitar (e.g., "Roller Coaster," "Kingdom of Heaven," "Postures") it was a perfect marriage.
AV: What was it like to play such venues as the Jade Room, the New Orleans Club, and (in Houston) Love Street Light Circus?RE: Those places were so swank.TO: The Elevators alternated between the New Orleans Club and the Jade Room which were the major places to play. Then they started to go down to Houston to Love Street. They also played at an auditorium in Houston with a revolving stage called Theatre of the Round.AV: Did the Elevators and Bubble Puppy, who were both signed to International Artists, share a commune house in Houston?RE: I never really lived in Houston except to hang out.
AV: It has been rumored and even stated (Rock Movers &amp; Shakers) that Janis Joplin either auditioned and/or sang with the Elevators in June of 1966 and that there was consideration given to her being co-vocalist with Roky Erickson.TO: That's true. Janis and I grew up in Port Arthur and we were really good friends. Jim Langdon also wrote some articles about Janis in an attempt to get her singing career going again. Janis had been singing in California and she had a bout with drug addiction. She came back to Texas to get straightened out and after she did she wanted to sing again. Jim Langdon arranged for her to come back to Austin and play at a place called The 11th Door doing bluesy-folk stuff. It was a benefit show for Teodar Jackson who had been killed. The 11th Door was located where Symphony Square is now by 11th and Red River.A number of musicians performed such as myself and Powell St. John, but of particular interest was that Janis sang and the Elevators closed the show. Roger Baker did a light show which was done at the Methodist Student Center. It was the first light show in Austin which was during June 1966 and it may have been the first light show in the country, possibly before anything in California.Janis met the Elevators and there was talk of Janis joining the band, but she got an offer to go back to California and join Big Brother and the Holding Company. So she took that instead of staying with the Elevators.CH: There were always people stopping by our place. One time Janis Joplin came over and went to our bedroom where we had a tape recorder. We stepped outside for a while and when we came back Janis told us she had taped herself singing. "We didn't know you could sing!" I said. But Janis was so insecure and wanted to be liked that she refused to have us play the tape while she was there."I'm going to walk around the block a couple of times," Janis said, "but please don't say anything if you think it's bad." Janis then left while we listened to the tape. When she returned we told her what a great singer she was. I think our compliments really helped her confidence. This was quite a while before she hooked up with Big Brother and the Holding Company in California and became a superstar. Most people who remember Janis with Big Brother probably think of this young woman who was so effusive and frenetic on stage, but the Janis we knew in Texas was the polar opposite---except that she could always sing.PS: As far as the idea of Janis joining The Elevators is concerned, I doubt if that was ever a serious consideration on Janis' part for two reasons. Number one, Janis didn't like psychedelic drugs and, number two, she tended to avoid anyone who was too open in the use of any drug. She would have found the Elevators' whole raison d'etre to be "uncool."
AV: It seems unmistakeable that Janis Joplin borrowed part of her vocal style from Roky Erickson. This can be detected upon listening to the Big Brother and the Holding Company Live LP which was recorded live at California Hall in San Francisco on 7/28/1966 which was only a month after Janis Joplin left Texas and joined Big Brother. Janis' vocals on "Coo Coo" (which later used the same music but different lyrics to evolve into "Oh, Sweet Mary" on the Cheap Thrills LP) sounds like an exact copy of Roky's vocal style as far as vocal delivery and especially the screeching vocals. Do you agree with this assessment?TO: I agree totally. Frankly, I think Janis got a lot of her rock and roll singing chops by listening to Roky.She had been listening to Jerry La Croix in Louisiana with the Boogie Kings and Jerry "Count" Jackson and the Counts and heard white people could sing the blues. Then she heard Roky.
AV: Please describe what the atmosphere was like in the mid 60s playing psychedelic music and having long hair in the state of Texas which had a good number of longhairs and freaks, but which was essentially redneck and ultra-conservative.RE: It was kind of scary, if you know what l mean.CH: The tough times I mentioned included such things as the Elevators being blamed for turning young people on to drugs with our music.Men were also constantly harrassing the Elevators for their long hair. We were very isolated; yet we thought we were very whole- wholesome, very moral, and very ethical.During these tough times we would often be saved or uplifted by Roky's miracle quality which we called "safety devices." He would see some bad vibes or a fight about to happen, but Roky would always come up with the words to make friends with anybody.TO: In a way we all did change the world. It was pretty hard to have long hair in Texas at that time and there was a lot of harrasment by the police. I don't think a lot of people born after 1970 realize what these guys went through in the 60s. The Elevators were essentially the first psychedelic band in the country. San Francisco has gotten a lot of credit for the psychedelic movement, but a lot of it was replicated from the musicians and their ideas that started right here in Texas.PS: On the contrary, there were not many long hairs and freaks in Texas prior to 1967, and it was open season on the few there were. For instance, Chet Helm was jailed in Laredo the evening of November 22, 1963 as a suspect in the JFK assassination simply because of the fact that he had shoulder length hair. As the decade wore on the various elements in society became more polarized: the political liberals against the political conservatives; the social liberals vs. the social conservatives; the hip vs. the square; the doves vs. the hawks; the freaks vs. the straights. I left Austin for San Francisco in the late summer of 1966 because the pervasive atmosphere of impending doom simply got to be more than l could wrestle with. Every week saw another rumor of the Big Bust. When the Elevators were busted it was rumored that it was only the beginning and that sooner or later the entire community would be rounded up.
AV: The group was busted at Tommy Hall's apartment in July of 1966.What happened and how did the band get out of incarceration when the state law of Texas at the time could put a person in jail for twenty years for one joint?RE: They decided not to do it to us. We got let off on probation.CH: The first time we were busted was at Tommy's house and included Roky, Stacy, John Ike, Tommy, and l. The arresting officer was well known to us for having the bad reputation of beating up his prisoners for "resisting arrest" on the way to jail. I asked to be arrested, but the police said they didn't want to arrest me. I knew Tommy would be beaten if I didn't go. I then demanded to be arrested whereupon I was taken with the rest of the guys to jail.Judge Thurmond was the presiding judge and he had a hard-line reputation for putting drug offenders in prison; not just for twenty years, but at hard labor! When our case came up everybody (including Evelyn Erickson and the rest of our parents) was saying prayers and hoping for some sort of miracle.It turned out that when we appeared in court that Judge Thurmond was sick. Even then we might have been sentenced to prison except that the alternate judge made an error while reading the evidence. The marijuana that was confiscated was a substantial amount, but the drug test for the analysis was worded that a "small amount was tested" which the new judge misconstrued as a "small amount." Consequently, my case was dismissed and the rest of the band received a one year's probation. The downside of our good fortune was that this incident turned John Ike's family against the band whereupon he eventually decided to quit just before Easter Everywhere was made.
AV: How did Powell St. John (who later played harp for the San Francisco band Mother Earth) become involved with the Elevators since he wrote a number of songs (e.g., "You Don't Know," "Kingdom of Heaven," "Monkey Island," "Slide Machine," and "You Gotta Take That Girl") for the group?PS: By the time the group signed with International Artists and began to record I was out of the country and if any attempt was made to locate me to get my approval it failed. I can but assume that Lelan Rogers figured that I might turn up eventually and so I was listed as John St. Powell in an attempt to protect International Artists from liability in case I decided to sue. In the summer of 1967 Lelan and his partner showed up at the place I was staying in San Francisco. They had a check (I don't remember how much) which they said was payment for the use of my material. I declined and told them that I intended to use the songs myself and that they had been copyrighted by my own publishing company Mainspring Watchworks Music. I never heard from them again.TO: Powell's name was written John St. Powell on the first album to avoid having to pay him for publishing fees. It was done intentionally by International Artists.
AV: International Artists didn't want to pay Powell for any songwriting credits since they wanted to keep it for the Elevators?TO: The Elevators never received any royalties.
AV: All the songs from Psychedelic Sounds (with the possible exception of "You're Gonna Miss Me") have psychedelic connotations. Wasn't this commercial suicide and why did International Artists go along with it?PS: People in Austin were experimenting with psychedelics (peyote) as early as 1961. In fact, there was an earlier generation of counter culture types who, I am sure, were experimenting with them even earlier than that. Tommy was familiar with Leary and Alpirt. We all read Huxley's Doors of Perception and Drugs and the Mind by Dr. Robert S. DeRoffs. This is what provided the philosophical underpinnings for the Elevators and their music.TO: This was a brand new sound and everybody was into new sounds. Psychedelic music was the next new thing and they were the inventors of it. They weren't thinking of a chance to make a record. It wasn't that they were trying to make a commercial record. They wanted to make a record of their sound.
[Interview continues at http://av.cah.utexas.edu/index.php/Vorda:Da_00]