Dennis Holbrook Interview, Part 2 of 2

DT: We were talking just a moment ago about organic cotton, which has really taken off in Texas and elsewhere. I understand that there's also still a real viable conventional business in cotton and that sometimes the two bump up against one another and compete and have problems and conflicts, such as over the use of malathion. Can you talk about some of those issues?

DH: What is first hand to me is the .. in Texas we always have the potential for a outbreak of the Mexican fruit fly, which then puts our area under quarantine so that and we cannot ship citrus to any other citrus producing state unless the fruit is fumigated.

So California being one of our markets, when we have an outbreak, then we lose that as a potential outlet for our products.

Last, I guess, it was two years ago, they decided that they were going to take an area of the Valley and put it under a blanket malathion spray program to try and control the Mexican fruit fly. As it turned out I had two orchards that was in this geographical region.

And so they came and they personally contacted me because they realized that by spraying malathion over my property, that I would in essence lose my certification, because it would have been contaminated.

So in explaining that situation to them and then also telling them that there would need to be financial compensation for that if, in the event they .. they did do that.

They then determined that it was probably a better idea to put a one-mile buffer zone around my two orchards. And so none of those areas were sprayed.

I really don't know, this was a test program that they were putting together, so I really don't know whether it was successful enough to whether they wanted to continue to maintain that type of program.

But I know that the cotton organic .. cotton growers right now are really under a bad situation in that respect. Because of the boll weevil eradication program that they're trying to implement in west Texas where they're growing with total blanket sprays malathion to control it.

They tried that same thing here, in the Valley about, I guess it has been four or five years ago. And what it resulted in was total disaster. They sprayed malathion on a lot of the prod .. producing area of cotton, which are not necessarily, in most cases, they are not in the same areas there were citrus or vegetables are grown.

But what they found was .. is that annihilated the beneficial population by spraying the malathion. And as a result they had outbreaks of Army .. Army Worms, that just totally devastated the crops. I mean, just totally just ate them down to just nothing but sticks.

And they took immediate action the following year to eliminate that boll weevil ratification program for this particular growing region. They just .. they bailed out of the program.

'Cause they saw what kind of devastating effects that .. that .. that they thought was directly related to the fact that they had knocked out so many beneficial insects that would have predators to those particular pests that ultimately just .. just took over.

DT: You've been in the organic ag business for almost 15 years now I guess?

DH: Almost sixteen.

DT: Sixteen years. Can you sort of take the big picture and tell us maybe how things have changed in organic ag and agriculture in general and where you think you are going?

DH: Well for me it .. I .. I consider myself fortunate that .. that, you know, that I was inspired to look at organics as an alternative. I don't want to consider myself to being so smart that I did this on my own. I probably was divinely inspired to .. to really pursue this and look at as an alternative. Because I could see where we were going, the direction we were going in.

I just didn't feel like it would be a continually economically viable way of producing. And it has been a struggle for the conventional growers over the years. They've had more lean years than they've had good years. And so I got into the organics by virtue of .. of thinking that there had to be a better way.

One, it was better for the environment. One that would be better for the long term of my land, the viability, its production and that I would have something that .. that I know or I .. I .. I would know that when I passed it on to my kids, that they too would have something that would be healthy and which to work from.

The organic industry, as far as agriculture, has probably only been the bright star for the last 10 years. Since 1990, organic production dollar-volume sales have increased a minimum of 20% a year, for the last 10 years.

It was originally looked upon as a specialty market, you know, a niche. But I can honestly say that with passing time, as I've seen it go by, that organics is more mainstream everyday and we will continue to .. to be so.

It offers the buying public a choice. And when there is as much concern as there is about what's being consumed, it's something that people pay more attention to and become more interested in.

And I honestly believe, I mean, it's not something that I can probably prove to you scientifically, but I've done this experiment with many different people. I can take an organically grown grapefruit or orange or piece of fruit and compare it to a conventional, and there is somewhat of a taste difference.

I ..I con.. I consider the truck drivers to be the connoisseurs of produce. And the reason I say that is they don't go anywhere, to any packing shed that they don't get a little sample of what's being packaged.

And I've had more truck drivers tell me on return trips that they were really glad they got this order here because I have the best tasting oranges and the best tasting grapefruit of any other packing shed in the Valley. And that's all subjective but that's, you know, that's what they're telling me. And .. and I believe it.

DT: Do you think it that it's healthier?

DH: Well, you know, healthier is whether it's got more nutrients than conventional, you know, I can't say it does. But I can tell you that you can take the risk factor out of not knowing, or knowing what hasn't been put on that product, as versus what may have been put on something conventionally grown.

DT: Maybe we could back up and talk about agriculture in general. We've been traveling around the Valley and as you've mentioned the last 10 years have had more lean years than fat for a lot of farmers. And I've noticed that a lot of the cultivated fields, vegetable patches and so on, had been turned into subdivisions and so on. What do you think the long-term outlook is for agriculture in the Valley?

DH: Well, we've got some obstacles there's no question about it. One of the biggest problems we had better facing us now is irrigation water, availability of water. That's probably the biggest concern.

And in .. if we can get that rectified, I know that there is some .. right now here's some what has created part of the .. the lack of water to the water shed has been that, in Mexico, that they have built some flow through dams which have basically held some of that water back that would have normally flowed into Lake Amistad and Falcon Lake which is were we source our water from.

And they are trying to go through .. take steps now through .. through Washington, through other representatives to see if they can figure out a .. an answer to that situation.

The other things is too that .. that's, as I've indicated earlier, you know, when you lose two thirds almost of your citrus industry by virtue of freezes, when you have a smaller industry, your .. your volume is going to be less and therefore that has a tendency to .. to hurt you out in the market place. You can't be as competitive.

When you look, for example, our advertising budget for citrus in Texas is roughly a million dollars a year. And that's just not advertising, I mean, that's the total budget for everything that is involved in that advertising agency. And you compare that to Florida who .. who spends 10 million dollars just in fresh citrus.

And that doesn't even include all of their Florida orange juice promotions and grapefruit promotions. So it makes it much more difficult for a small area like this to be competitive and to .. to be viable. And so we have some obstacles. We have a great following cause we grow good products in this area.

The Texas grapefruit is probably the most well-known and popular grapefruit grown anywhere. And we historically have been able to usually get a little better price than Florida or California with the products that we grow. But, there's definitely some obstacles for us to overcome for us to .. to continue to be viable.

One of the things that's been another disadvantage, I guess, is the fact that we've been .. this particular area has been the, I think, the 3rd fastest growing area in the United States for the last two or three years.

And with that we've had, you mentioned subdivisions, and there's been a lot of property that has been converted to subdivisions because that's a more viable way of getting a return on your investment than it is the .. then agriculture. So, that's another area that's of concern for agriculture too.

DT: Looking beyond agriculture maybe for a moment could you tell me about what you might see as major conservation challenges in the future?

DH: Well, I think it goes back to the water issue again. I think what .. what were having to do now is to look at the means that can better utilize the water so we have less waste so we get the most benefit from .. from what we are able to .. to acquire.

So, I think probably on a conservation method, that, you know, that's probably the number on most important. The other thing is .. is were seeing in our area a lot of people going to no till agriculture. So, you know, we haven't had the rains here the last 4 .. 5 .. 6 years that we normally have had in years passed.

And where you have a drought condition, farming it the same way as you do when you have lots of rain creates a lot of problem with wind, you know, blowing sand and different things like that. So that's become a more .. more of an important issue. And people tried to leave more residue in the soils to .. to reduce the amount of soil lost just to erosion.

DT: Again looking at the future you, mentioned that you had a couple of daughters. How do you think you can get and keep them interested in continuing organic agriculture or fostering some interest in environmental issues?

DH: Well, actually I have four kids. I have two still at home. I have two that are .. that are off in college. But, you know, it's an interesting .. it's an interesting question. Because I don't know if I really have the answer. My kids appreciate what I do. And they, you know, they enjoy the benefits of what I do.

But they also realize the amount of hours and the amount of effort that has to go in to be .. to being a successful farmer. And I'm not sure if they're really .. really wanting to commit to that kind of commitment.

You know, time .. time changes, you know, when your kids are .. are young and in high school their interests don't really lie in, you know, what dad does for a living or, you know, what's .. what's the best for the environment. But as my kids have gotten older, I have just recently spoke with my son, and I can see that his interests in things have changed considerably from when he was in high school.

And he is beginning to become more concerned about, you know, the future and what it's going to provide. And, you know, it's .. it .. time will tell whether he will eventually end up here or not, or any of my kids for that matter. But we'll .. we'll see.

DT: Maybe you can talk about yourself. Were there any people in your childhood that may have got you interested in the outdoors or conservation?

DH: I guess I would probably have to attribute that mostly to my father. When I was just real small, I mean, I was probably four or five years old, before I got into school, I would usually go to work with my dad. My mom would make me a little lunch with my dad and we would go. And I would ride the tractor with him or I would .. whatever he was doing, I was kind of his companion.

And .. and I just gained a love for .. for the earth. I've always found it be a marvel to .. to prepare a piece of land and put a seed in and watch it grow and .. and to fully develop and then to reap the harvest.

And that's .. there's a certain amount of magic involved in all that and it's a very fulfilling, very rewarding thing to do, sometimes not financially, but it .. it is rewarding in .. in itself.

DT: Are there particular pieces of the earth that you enjoy visiting that beauty to you?

DH: Well, we are fortunate enough to have a place up on the Sabinal River, up in the Hill Country of Texas. And when we want to get away for a few days, we usually head up there. And it's .. it's tranquil.

It's right in the middle of .. of nature. We have deer and turkey and squirrels and raccoon and everything wandering through the .. through the little farm there .. little .. little acreage that we have there.

And we enjoy the river. And we enjoy being able to sit out and float on inner tubes and just enjoy the environment there. It's a .. it's a .. great place to go. It's a great place to be.

DT: Well good enough. Thank you very much for spending some time with us. End of Reel #2094 End of Interview with Dennis Holbrook