Naya Jones: Frank can you share your full name, your birth date, where you were born, and your age? Frank Young: My full name is Frank Young. I was born in Austin, Texas. I'm 74 years old coming Saturday. NJ: Perfect. Thank you. And, can you share with us your experience with Nighthawk Restaurants. FY: I've had quite a bit of experience with Nighthawk. I can say that I enjoyed working for Nighthawk. And I really - it's been an educational thing for me. I never had a chance to finish high school, so I'd have to say that Nighthawk was my university. I had a good man to work for, Harry Aitken, and he was as close to the father that I would ever have. He helped me when I was in need of finances, he gave me advice - fatherly advice, and he was always fair with me. I started at Nighthawk as relief person. I started working on the Drag. And Mr. Aitken was a strong believer in hiring students at UT. He was a strong believer in that. He'd tell you to work a schedule around his [a student's] schedule. And that's would I would do. But I started working there, and I was the relief person. Anytime they had activities, or kid was studying or wanted to have night off, they'd call me and I would go in and work in his place. And that was pot washer or dishwasher, or any little thing like that. So what I'm saying is I've worked my way from a pot washer to general manager, so I feel like I've had some success there with Nighthawk. NJ: When did you first work with Nighthawk? When did you start there? FY: I started working June 1958. I worked the evening shift. I tried to go to school and work in the evenings. I had to drop out eleventh grade, and I started working full time at Nighthawk. During this time, Nighthawk was one of the highest paying restaurants around. We made a dollar and five cents an hour. All the other restaurants paid 85 and 95 cents. The one thing about Nighthawk - people enjoyed working there 'cause they was fairly treated. They was treated fairly. I noticed that we never had to put an ad in the paper saying "Help Wanted". We never had an ad out. 'Cause we had a waiting list to come in and work for Nighthawk. We also - Mr. Aitken made it clear to me that we never had to run a special. He said anytime you run a special, that's a sign that you're in trouble. You're havin' a problem when you start runnin' specials. So he just refused to run a special. We just was able to maintain and do what we had to. And, we had a logo that said, "There's nothing accidental about quality." And we had to really live up to that logo. We cut our own meat. Mr. Aitken raised his own cattle, right there on 969. We processed the meat. It was a processing plant in the back of Number 1. And I worked in there cuttin' meat for many, many months. It was a bad experience in some cases. I did say that I managed to serve Lyndon Johnson. He'd come down and get steaks. But we was the type - he just walked in, and he'd hold his finger up and say, "I want ten." He'd never say an inch thick or a half inch or three inches, so maybe you'd cut five or six steaks before you got the right one. But he would come in about once a month and buy steaks, and I'd cut steaks and let him take it back to Johnson City. And he was a cheap tipper. He would tip you a half a dollar. So when he made president, I was so happy. I said, "This country's gonna be in good shape now, 'cause as tight as this guy is, he'll never spend all the money!" But I was wrong. I would like to say something about Mr. Craig. Mr. Craig was a really -- a really big influence to me, too. 'Cause he had to really bite the bullet to hang on. He was pushed around so many different ways. Harry Aitken was just determined to have some type of restaurant. Mr. Craig and Harry Aitken had a little one-room building there right where Number 1 is on South Congress and Riverside. And, uh, the flood washed it away twice, but Mr. Aitken was determined to have a restaurant. But Mr. Craig would tell me some stories that really just were heartbreaking. The reason he got to be one of the first stockholders - some weeks Harry couldn't afford to pay him. He would open up credit accounts at gas stations across the street, he could get gas. Butter Krust would give him bread. He'd go to Big Bear, which was next door to HEB - I mean next door to Nighthawk - and Big Bear would give Mr. Craig credit. But Mr. Aitken didn't have the money to pay Mr. Craig. So he told him, said, "You stick with me, and I will see that you make it." Well, Mr. Craig broke the ice for all the managers. Later on, and I guess about 15 years later, it was automatic that you had to buy stock into the company. All managers. You automatically had to buy stock. They'd take you to the bank and borrow the money so you could buy stock for the company. So that was something that I - I will always remember, that Mr. Craig left with us on that. But he did tell me he had some tough times. And I can recall some of the days where he got into it with one of the other general managers, and they demoted him. They started him back to cookin'. He was the manager. And they put him in white pants again. See, he never could wear a suit and tie like we did. He had to wear white pants, 'cause he was classified as a chef cook, head chef. And he never walked around in a suit and tie and all, 'til his late years. But for maybe fifteen, twenty years Mr. Craig wore white pants, and a white shirt, and a tall hat. But he never would - he said, "I'm goin' all the way. I was told to hang in there, and that's what I'll do." So he stood in there, and he was pretty-in pretty good shape when he left Nighthawk. He was good. He was ahead of everybody. And all the managers that worked there, I think they were fairly treated when it comes to buyin' stocks. You could buy as much as you wanted. And we were just [unintelligible]. Now the purpose for you buyin' the stock - you had no reason to be dishonest, 'cause you takin' away from yourself. See people don't realize, when you buy stock in a company, anytime you take somethin' you takin' it from yourself. So it's very important that you remember what you're doin' when you buy some stock. But that's, you know, one of the things that people don't realize. I was transferred to all of the restaurants. I worked in every Nighthawk we had but San Antonio. During the Whitman shooting from the tower, I was on duty at Guadalupe. So I was there to see this happen. And, I was also manager on duty at Number 1 when it caught fire and burnt down. So, all the disadvantages, I was involved in 'em. [Laughing] But I still say it was something that was rewarding to me, and it was something I enjoyed doing. And I enjoyed having the opportunity to work with so many good people like Hoover and others. I had some older senior citizens that taught me so much about this business. And I - I really - I appreciated that. And I tried to work them as close as I could. C-Boy, uh, Charles Overton, Leon Harrison, all those guys was just there for me. 'Cause, see, I was one of the youngest managers that they ever had, 'til Rick come along. But I was one of the youngest ones, and then being the youngest Black one too. But I can recall the time that a young manager took me to Mary Shaven Brown? Murray, Shanklin, Brown?. He bought me three suits. He said, "Now, this is equivalent to six suits. You wear the brown pants with the black coat tomorrow, and you wear the brown suit the next day." He said, "Now you got six suits here. You have no reason to come in the same suit every day." And then they bought me maybe ten or fifteen white shirts. "Change your shirts. And we'll give you a card to go to Homestein's and get your shirt laundered." So I had no reason to go around shabby. So that--that was some of the good things. And I want to talk about some of the customers we had. We had one man that walked in, and I think he was kind of like a street person, he had three woman with him, and I know what was goin' on there. He'd come in, and he wanted to show them the ropes. He wanted to show them how to get by when you come into a restaurant. He walks in and that's when shrimp was so high. I think we were charging like fourteen or fifteen dollars then. And he ordered three containers of shrimp. And they had shrimp, and he had cocktails. I think his bill was maybe like close to $250. And, uh, he finished the meal and everything. He had a hat on with a feather in it, and he had a Hispanic lady, a - a Black lady, and a Caucasian. He had those three with him, and he was gonna show them the ropes. So he called for the manager, asked the waitress, "Could you get the manager please?" She said, "Yes." I said, "Can I help you?" He said, "You better do somethin' about these shrimp. You gonna kill somebody, givin' 'em these shrimp," and said, "You need to make some adjustments on this check." I says, "Well, I tell ya, I'd love to do that, but you didn't leave me nothin' to work with." He finished everything [laughing], everybody had eaten all the shrimp. Even looked like they chewed the tails. I says, "Well, if you'd just left one shrimp here, to give me somethin' to work with, I'd be more than happy to comp this check due." He said, "Well, I'm not gonna pay." So, I had three police officers just over there - see I'd give them coffee, 'cause I didn't have to have security during robberies and all. Any police come in he'd get coffee, so I always had one or two police there. Coffee didn't cost that much. And, uh, I said, "These three men over there, they'd probably disagree with you on that. Let me go over and get 'em." He said, "Wait a minute, wait a minute, brother, wait a minute." And he pulled out a roll of money. But I said, "Well I've got three men that would probably disagree with you. And I'll just go get them and bring them back and let them talk to you." So he walked out, and he left, and he said he'd never be back anymore. Well, you-you'd like to say something but you can't. You start to say, "I'd appreciate it, if you meant that." But that's just, you know, the way he -- he did that. Now I had a problem with Ann Richards, which was our governor. I had problems with her. She was one that - she wanted to park in the same parking space every day. And if someone was there in that parking space, she'd come in cursin' and just raisin' all kind of sayin'. And I would say, "Well, I'm sorry but we don't have a designated area here, this just park as you come." She got mad with me. And she cursed me and everything, and I took it. And, then, this - this Rylander lady, she comes in. What was she the mayor or someone, wasn't she? Okay. And she was datin' another lady. So - uh - a little red headed lady. And they was in the bar, and they'd had quite a few drinks. And Ms. Rylander - the little lady got up to go the restroom - and when-you know, the little short dresses we wore - the little lamptop dresses. We had little short lamptops in the bar area. And, uh, he pinched her on the hip. And, uh, he pinched her on the hip. And Rylander was lookin' at her. So when he come back they started arguin'. And they started fussin', real loud. And I had to go over and talk to her. And I said, "I'm sorry, but I just can't let you talk like this in here." And she said, "Well, look, do you know who I am." I said, "Yes, ma'am. That's why I'm so concerned about this. 'Cause you got some other people that would have mixed feelings about you." And she said, "Well, I just want you to know who - " And I said, "I know who you are. I know. And that's why I wanna come over and talk to you, so I won't have to call nobody in to come get you." And boy she sure did show out then. She got up and left. She cursed me and left. About three days later, I received a long letter. And it stated that she was on some medication, and she just lost it. She didn't know what she was sayin' or nothin', and she wanted me to accept her apologies and all. So, I had to do that. But what I'm sayin' is you've got professional people who come in and cause more problems than anybody. And believe it or not, with my experience with restaurant business, the one who walks in with a necktie on and a suit is the one give you a hot check. You won't believe that. But the working man, if he walks in and gives you a check, gladly take it. But if one come in with a suit on, you better watch it. 'Cause you don't know where he's been doin' that same thing. And I - I used to have checks by the shoebox. And, see-I don't know, I guess they're a little stricter now-but at that time you could turn him into the D.A. He'd pay a fine, but that would go to the state. So I don't know how that work now, but that was a real thing that put us in a hole. And the one other thing, see, we - I guess Hoover got the same thing - we'd serve you, and then you could pay the check. You know, most large restaurants that way. Now the little fast foods, you turn your order in and the money, give it to 'em. But I had problems 'cause I was just three blocks from the Salvation Army. And those guys would come down and order one of the largest steaks you had. But the way the system was set up, he'd come in and eat too much and or beer, and ask for the manager, especially in the winter time. 'Cause he didn't have any place to stay, so he wanted to go to jail. He wanted to go to jail and have a warm place to sleep. And, in the morning they gonna let 'em go, 'cause it's a misdemeanor. So you can't get anything there. So, then they got so they told me, say, "Well, from here on, you just give 'em somethin' to do. Put 'em to work." Well, you wouldn't want a guy come in your restaurant to work, and he's there kissin' his old dog and everything, and you've got 'em washin' dishes. And, I started takin' 'em out and makin' them scrub the trash cans. And, uh, I -- that was one way I broke 'em up. 'Cause I had a chef cook, great big 'ol guy - Charles Burss - and I said to Charles Burss, "Take that long knife, and if he try to run, you just cut him all the way, and I'll get you out of jail." So this little guy was just scrubbin', and scrubbin', and scrubbin', and scrubbin'. And he just went around there a couple of times. And, uh, he, uh, you know, he felt that he could get over on me. He, "Well, they clean, boss, I got 'em." I said, "Okay, wait a minute. Charles, go get me a bucket of water." He got it, and I handed him a cup. I said, "Get you a drink out of there." And he said, "Uh, uh, uh --" And I said, "Well if you don't trust yourself, you know I don't trust you!" I told him, I said, "Get you some water out of there." He wouldn't drink no water out of there, so I knew it wasn't clean. But this is one of the things we had to deal with there, you had so many thing goin' against you. I had one Jew man, Jewish, he would come there, and he would order a cup of coffee every day. And he always had a hundred dollar bill. He never had change. Never. And I said, "Go, and I'll catch you next time." And he'd come back and present that same hundred dollar bill. So I fixed him one day. I had - I saved 97 ones, one dollar bills. And man, when I started givin' him those dollar bills, you should've seen him goin', "I think I can find a dollar." But he was gettin' by with me, just to get a cup of coffee. But those are some of the things you deal with in, uh, life. I had quite a bit of theft. In a restaurant, you're gonna have theft. That's the way you fix your costs. 'Cause you've got to allow for theft. Theft is included. I had one guy he worked there and he was going across the river bridge with a bucket. And he lived in East Austin, and I said - well, someone had told me he was taking steaks - so I said, "Well come on, I'm gonna give you a ride." And he said, "Oh no, no, no." I said, "Yes, I'm givin' you a ride." And he didn't want to get a ride because he had it full of steaks. And I asked him, I said, "Now what do you have in the bucket? Now you leavin' with a bucket, and I didn't give you permission to take the bucket." So I found out he had gotten steaks, and he was wagglin' across the bridge with those steaks. So I had to pull him over to the curb, and I told him, and I said, "Well, you just take 'em all back down there. And let 'em know you bringing steaks back." He was so embarrassed that you couldn't get him to get a piece of bread after that. I didn't terminate him, but I wanted to let him know that I knew what he was doing. So in the restaurant business it's a lot of things involved that people don't realize. You think just the managers walking around there lookin', but you'd be surprised what he's got to deal with. And, see, when you work as a manager of a restaurant with over a 100 employees, you don't know how to dress when you go in. You don't know if you have to dress like a priest, a marriage counselor, a banker, 'cause all of your people gonna have problems. Some of them are gonna have those kinds of problems. So you don't know if you need to walk in as a priest with a collar on or a marriage counselor. 'Cause, see you might find out from a little waitress that she's having problems with her husband, they fought all night. So she can't participate, she can't do good. If a man's having financial problems, he's gonna have a hard time and gonna try to take from you. I had cashiers - I was determined to be the first one to hire a black cashier. I was just determined to do that. And I hired this young lady, and you know the dad well [to Hoover]. I hired her and I said, "I'm gonna hire me a black cashier. I don't want to be the only thing walking around out front here." And I hired this young lady, and she was a sweet little ol' girl, nice lookin' little girl, and she was good at her work. But we had shifts. You change one shift, like, uh, you - one worked at 2:30, and then at 2:30 another one come on and work 'til 5:30, or whatever. But, see, every time you hit that clock to turn that ticket in, it tells you what time you hit it. So then you know the cashier that's on duty. And this little girl, every day she had to go to the restroom at the same time. And I couldn't understand it. 3:00, every day, 3:00. And what she would do, you know she'd get two or three hundred dollars' worth of checks, and she wouldn't ring them up. She'd wrap 'em in little paper, and take 'em to the ladies room, and put 'em in the bottom of the trash can. And, see, that was the biggest mistake she couldn't ever made, knowin' that when the man lift it, it's on top. So, she was there, and I knew her dad well, and I waited about four or five days and let it add up. And I said, "Frieda I need to talk to you." And she said, "Why?" I said, "Baby, you doin' something that's not right. And I don't want to see you doing this." I said, "I - you broke the ice, and I just want to see you doing this." And she started crying. And I said, "Now, I'm not gonna terminate you, I'm gonna let you resign. I'm not gonna terminate you, 'cause I know it's hard and you probably would never get another job." I said, "But I'm gonna go ahead and let you resign." She went and told her dad that I fired her because she was black. And, uh, he quit speaking to me for a long time. And later she got her job at the IRS, then she went back and told her dad what had happened. The man come to me cryin'. He said, "Frank, I'm sorry. I didn't know." I said, "You wouldn't allow me a chance to tell you. Every time I tried to tell you, you'd walk away and say you didn't want to hear it." But that was one of my downfalls there. 'Cause I wanted to have a black - but before it was over I had a black assistant manager and a white one. And, things worked out real good for me. And I had two good young managers, Caucasians, I had Danny, you remember Danny [to Hoover Alexander]. Do you remember little Sue, that worked at Number 6? [To Hoover Alexander] You know she was like a little army sergeant. I never had to deal with the females. If one had, you know the sexual harassment and discrimination, you know all that was out then pretty bad, so I never wanted to talk a young lady about her brassiere or none of that. That was Sue's department. So I never had to deal with that. And if I wanted to terminate one or tell one somethin', I'd automatically have Sue in the office with me, and let Sue be there as a witness. And that was one of the things that helped us, where we never had no major law suits. But it's so easy for someone to sue you. It's so easy. But that was one of the things, and I, uh, I managed to cook quite a few of the items that Nighthawk served. Now, our number one item, the one that made Nighthawk famous, was that Size Royal. Hoover [speaking to Hoover Alexander] do you remember the Size Royal? Now that was a real meal. Anytime you had a Size Royal you were full. Now that consisted of a hamburger patty and a half. And you took chopped onions, garlic, garlic powder, and onion powder, and you molded this back together, and you put it in a sheet pan and put a little flour on it and water and stick it in the oven. Once this patty's done, you take it out. Now when we first started this Size Royal, we started with - we had a Western chili and a Mexican chili. And we would use pinto beans and put chili over the top, and a piece of cheese. And just warm it up and melt the cheese on it. But so many people complained about the Mexican chili being too rich. So then we gave 'em an option, they could go either way. They could go Mexican or Western. But it wasn't as popular. But university students, they loved it. 'Cause that was a meal, and he could eat that and go to the movies and have money left. So that was one of our famous dishes. And, the second dish which we were famous with, which Roy Lee gonna fill you in on all that, was the chicken pot pie. Hoover, do you serve somethin' like a chicken pot pie? [To Hoover Alexander] Hoover Alexander: Sometimes in the winter, we do. FY: Yeah. Well that chicken pot pie was a good one. And to show you how smart Harry Aitken was, he was smart enough to know, the thicker the bowl you get, the longer the heat lasts. So he would get - he would order some real thick bowls, and then he would cover it with strips of dough and bake it. That pie would stay hot, I guess, thirty minutes. See, he was a strong believer in hot food. You don't serve no cold food at Nighthawk. So he really just really stressed that on us. Serve it right. I got a picture at home of him showing me how to make a hamburger. And, I didn't think to bring it. But I'll try to get it for you, Hoover. [to Hoover Alexander] But he pulled his coat off one day, and I was sure shinin'. I wanted to think I was shinin'. But see so many orders were comin' in and out, what didn't have time to clean my grill or nothin'. And I was just throwin' patties on there. And he said, "Scratch 'em all off. Scratch all of 'em off." He took a loss, but he showed me the proper way to make a hamburger. And I have been able to show that to quite a few others. I passed it on down. But, see I never would have known. But he took the time. He pulled his coat off and went back there, and he cleaned that grill. And, it made a lot of sense. He said, "Frank, when you clean the grill, the hamburger patties cook faster. You don't have all that crud you're cookin' on top of." But I wasn't aware of that. I was just a young man, and I didn't think it meant anything. I was showin' - and I was hopin' -- that he would give me a raise by watching me work fast. And I wasn't doin' - I was messin' up the food. So, uh, he was one that took patience. He had patience with you. One other incident that happened. I was young and all the older senior citizens were always sayin', "I'm goin' in and gettin' me a raise. I'm goin' and gettin' a raise. I'm gonna ask for me a raise." Well I was young, I listened to these guys. And I said, "I'm gonna go in and ask Mr. Aitken, too." I went in, and I said, "Mr. Aitken, I need a raise." He said, "You need a raise." And I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "Okay, let's see if you do. Sit down and write everything that you own. Every bill you pay, for this whole month." So I wrote, and it wasn't but about three hundred dollars for the whole thing. And Mr. Aitken figured it up, everything. He said, "Well you make $475, and you spend three. Son, I'm gonna show you how to go to the bank and save some money." So I never asked for a raise again. They gave them to me from then on. But's what type of man he was. He never denied me, he never said no, but he wanted to know if I really needed one. And I had $175 more that I could've saved. But I - see, and these other guys sayin', "I went in too." So, he - he was for his employees. Now he went as far as tellin' me that he was born in Taylor, Texas. And his mother, his dad and mother had a maid, a black maid. And this maid had a son that was born, like, a couple of days before Harry was. His mother took some type of fever, and she couldn't supply him with milk. He nursed a black lady, along with her son. And he was very grateful to that lady. He used to make us get a truck and go over there and take meat, all kind of meat, for her. And when she passed away he buried her. I mean, he wouldn't let her kids or nobody bury her. He said that was his mother. And he would make trips over there to see her constantly. So that's why he was so partial to Black people. That was his whole thing. 'Cause he was. And, like I was telling this young lady [referring to Naya Jones] that is why he never made mayor again. See, that first term was all he got. But he wouldn't cooperate. So he-he wasn't allowed to get back in there. But that's the way he believed, and he would go with that. And, I do say, he -- I think he was ahead of his time. He was the first one to open to blacks on the drag. He made it clear, "If I have to close the doors, I will sell blacks." And he said, "Anybody that's gonna have a problem serving blacks, I want you to get your belongings and leave now." You'd be surprised at the waitresses that was leavin'. They were datin' those black guys at night but they couldn't serve 'em. That - that was just a shame. I'd get so mad. Yeah, they're datin' them every night, but that was behind closed doors. But they couldn't do it in the open. So that was a real - I don't know, you might need to scratch that off - but that was a real, uh, disappointment, to see some of the key people that you thought was regular, walking out of there when he made that statement. He said, "No, you will serve 'em. I don't want to have no problems. I don't want to have nobody callin' and complainin' that you refused to serve 'em. And you think you're going to have problems, I want you to get your belongings and leave now." That show you how strict is was on what he believed in. He was a real strong man, to not be an educated man. He wasn't educated. He didn't go to college or none of that, in his early years. But he had a whole lot of common sense. And he was just able to do things, and he was one that would - I know they had a place they called Tally-Ho's right there in front of Nighthawk. And, uh, he served his chili about two bucks cheaper than Nighthawk. And one man come up one day, and he said, "Harry, why your chili so high? Tally-Ho's sells it for two dollars less." He said, "Yeah, but I know what I got in my chili. You don't know what they got in their chili, and they don't know what they got in it. But I process my meat, and I can sell it like that." We served a hamburger higher than another other little place on the drag. Our hamburgers cost then four to five dollars. And the other places - but we had quality. We were living up to that sign out there on the marquis: There's nothing accidental about quality. And we lived up to that, and we had to really make some struggles, we had to make some adjustments. I can recall the time that he would buy bread from Butter Krust, and that's when you're talkin' about food cost, he would buy bread, and he would get it a penny cheaper, if they didn't cut it. So we'd stand there and cut hamburger buns. One man would maybe cut hamburger buns about half a day. But he was saving a penny on every one of those buns. As many hamburgers as we sold, he made money on it. But what I'm trying to say, he was lookin' at all angles. The burnt grease that we'd cook with, he'd sell that burnt grease. And then he'd go buy something else with it. But he taught us how to do all that. We were able to really get involved and deal with times. Good times, hard times, all times. He was there for us, and he never had no - he never was busy that he couldn't stop and talk to you. So, he was ahead of his time, and he didn't want to be fancy like most of these successful business men. You know, they go get brand new cars and all. And I asked him one day, I said, "Everybody, Eddie, Joseph, and everybody's buyin' new cars. You don't want to?" He said, "No, I don't." And see, he leased his cars. He pat me on the shoulder and said, "Son let me let you know one thing. As long as I know how to buy a new car, that's all that counts." I'll never forget that. So now, when you see me in old shoes, I say, "Well as long as I know I've got suits in the house, I'm not gonna worry about it." But that - that was the way he'd accept things. He said, "Don't worry about what the other people are doing. Do what you know you can do, and keep up with what you can, and you'll be successful." And I think he was a very successful man. He had a downfall the last few years he started there, he hired the wrong type of personnel. And this man was a stone alcoholic - Kern Taylor. And then he, Harry, had had all the success I guess he wanted to have, so he had nothing else to do. So then he'd join this guy everyday on the bar, and they'd have cocktails. So I think that kind of got him off track. Then this guy just took full control. This man that come in there. So that is what turned the whole thing around. I think if had been still like he was when I started, Nighthawk would probably still be there. But, uh, a lot happened in that period of time when this man was there. But he did a lot of things for all people. He helped everybody. Anytime somebody lost a loved one in the family, you automatically made up some food and took it to 'em. You didn't have to ask him. You'd take it to them. And he'd say, "Anybody that come in this place that's hungry or thirsty, you feed 'em." I recall a time that I had a man to come in Number 6, and he was stringy looking. But he wanted ten dollars. He said, "Friend, I need ten dollars. And I'm not buyin' no liquor with it. And he went in detail to tell me he was a professor at one time, but his wife had quit him, and he went down to the dogs. And he was tryin' to get to New York. And he was goin' to thumb a ride, but he needed some money. About three years later, this guy come in, and he had his suit and tie on. He had been successful again, and he was looking for that black manager up there. And I said, "Uh-oh, what did I do there." But anyway he said, "I know you don't remember me, but I remember you, and he said, I just want to let you know I appreciate you." And he just hand me a hundred dollar bill. He said, "I appreciate what you did for me." So what I'm trying to say, you've had good people, all nationalities has been good. All people are not bad. You've got some bad ones, but you do have some good ones. And I've had a great deal of success with them. Because at one time I was the only black walking around out there, and all my employees were just about Caucasian. But, I never had problems with them, and they were all highly educated, 'cause most of them were going to college, university. And I never had the pleasure of going to college, but they respected me for my title. And I tried to be fair with them and honest with them. And I never had no problems with that. So I'm saying that you can be successful with everything, if you do it the right way. [Interview paused at 36:34. Recorder turned off and then back on.] NJ: Can you share more about how - what you noticed through the 50s, 60s, and 70s, about changes in Austin, with the Nighthawk Restaurant, during your time with the restaurant chain? FY: Well the changes I've seen, and I really appreciate seein' 'em, I notice that the younger generation can get along, all nationalities get along good. I can recall the time when certain areas of Austin - from First Street to Third Street was Hispanic. You did not go in that area. Okay, you go back from anywhere this side of 35, on the other side of 35, would be East Austin. That was where the Black people lived. You go north or you go west, you had Caucasians. [Unintelligible.] Some of the pretty very well off people lived West, like Westlake and some of those places. That's where most of the successful people lived. And so many of the Hispanic people and Afro-Americans got all their employment in the yards, and housework, and so forth in the North Austin or West Austin. But that was the only place you could make money then. And what you could do, you could go and work for successful businessman, and he would let you have a car with no money down. 'Cause you didn't have any money, the most you could get was a hundred dollars a month - a hundred dollars a week was the most you could make at that time. And I have to say, I started at a dollar and five cents an hour, and I went up to about four thousand dollars a month. That shows you what an increase in what time change had to do with it. But I will say this, and this is very encouraging to any young man: you have to crawl before you walk. And most young people today want to start at the top. It doesn't work that way. If you want to be successful in the restaurant business, you've got to know everything about a restaurant. So that means from the dishwasher on up to the cashier, then you can be successful. You can pass it over. But that's the same as telling a person how to get to California, and you've never been there. So that's why it's so important - don't down the dishwasher, 'cause if he doesn't have dishes washed you still can't operate. So his job is important too. He's an important person. And people look on a man when they say, "I wash dishes at a certain place." But you'd be surprised that some - that's someone you've got to have. So these are some of the things we had to do to survive. I had to work - I can recall the time when I got into management, I was training Caucasians, but they was making more money than what I was making. And I couldn't understand that. But I was making less, but then I was training them to be managers. So that shows you some of the sacrifice that I had to make. But I had to stay there 'cause I had a job paying more than the average job would pay. But I couldn't be happy with what I was getting, and this other guy's getting more money, and he knows less. But that's the way the system was set up at that time. Later on it changed. And, I guess five or six years after that, it changed over. Where we had all black managers. All the managers were black in all the restaurants, at one time. Mr. Ford, which you will interview him, he had two restaurants. He operated two in San Antonio. And I mean he was the sole man by himself, 'cause everyone else was here in Austin. And we'd go down maybe once a month and share some thoughts with him or some new ideas. But he was on his own. He had to do it all. So I admire that man, and actually he's still working. He's still managing a restaurant now. He manages that Dan's Hamburgers on Airport. But he come up through the ranks like me. He started work in the butcher shop. He worked as a busboy, a dishwasher, and that's why he can gladly tell a man how to do somethin', and he know what he's talkin' about. So that was one of the things that Mr. Aitken said you had to know. You go in and work two months or three months, and then you - you can be successful. Now I went to Nighthawk to get a full time job. I went to fill in for a man who had to go to a funeral in West Texas. And he had been there about ten years. And I worked there, but my grandmother had always said, "Son, if you're going to do something, always give it your best. But go beyond. Don't just be satisfied with what you're doing. Try to do a little more." So that stuck into my head. So when I went in to watch pots - the pot washer, he'd wash pots, and then he'd go sit out on the milk carton and rest. He-you know it was no pots, so he had nothin' left to do. Well I started thinking about what my grandmother had said. So I'd go wipe the tables off, the big table where they'd cook. I'd keep the floor mop right in that area. Well I didn't realize that the boss was watching me, but he was. Well, when this man came back, the man tell him he didn't have a job for him. So this man died sayin' that I took his job. So, you see that's what I was saying, and I'm trying to encourage any young man who's goin' into a business: give it your best. I don't care what type of work it is, you can be successful with it. But you have to give it one hundred and ten percent, you can't just be happy with a hundred. And that's where I feel I had a good relationship with Hoover. He was a guy that always had good ideas, and he'd come share those ideas with me. And that sound good to me 'cause so many times I was involved in other things. Like he was telling me this lady was cryin' about her son. Well, okay, the manager's got to deal with that. Hoover didn't have to deal with it. But I'm just saying, he would come and share things with me. And we had a great deal of - well, we respected each other. And we-we had a good relationship, and we had a great deal of success together. And you know, with him being a brother and I was a brother, we understood that we had to stand out. We couldn't just sit back, we had to stand out. And Hoover was good, he was always good, with words. So that helped me some, 'cause he would be my representative. He could speak for me. Me being a guy that never had the pleasure of going to college, I had to kind of step back when it came to making speeches and so forth. But I will say I was successful with it, and I'm benefitting from it now - still benefitting from it by buying stock into the company. So, that was some success for me. And I was able to stay long enough to draw social security, so that's another plus. But I only had that job, and then I went to work at UT after they closed. But I never was one to change and go 'cause someone offered a dollar more. See that's where most people make a mistake. Most cooks, they could be good chef cooks but they don't stay long enough 'cause they looking for the big bucks. And the big bucks are there, but you've just got to earn 'em. But a lot of people don't see it that way. But it - it's changed, and like I said, people are mellowed down now. And they respect a man for his talent and what he does. There was a time that, uh, you know [what] guys wouldn't want to respect Hoover or wouldn't want to work with Hoover. But he's proven to them that he know what he's doin', and they want to learn, and they want to be successful. So they got to go along with him. And he's really been a real good influence to a lot of people. See a lot of people in East Austin, see they can't get enough. I know his mother and father and all, and, uh, his dad worked hard all his life. And, see, Hoover just decided he wanted to go to college, and wanted to learn and get him a business. And he's doing good with it. And I just can't say enough about him. But it hasn't been easy all the time. And I have to say - thanks to you - you come along when times was good. But, uh, you'd be surprised about how we used to do - like I was telling you about the butter? We would have to get butter, and it looked like lard, and you put the yellow in it. We would go and get that one pair of shoes, and that was it. You'd go to the grocery store and they'd give you credit. But the man could run the books up on you and everything. You had no way of knowing. But you needed food, so you didn't argue with him. If he was kind enough to give you credit, you went with it. And that's the way that had to go, at that time. That show you how far we've come. Now we've got grocery stores. But there was a time that you had few stores in town, and they would give you a little credit. NJ: Did you grow up with a garden? You mentioned that you gardened. Did you grow up with a garden as well for food? FY: Yes. I had to raise a garden. I had to raise chickens, and I was telling you about the young male calves that I used to have to raise. We used 'em to butcher and used for beef. You couldn't get a steak. See, now days, I've noticed this, and I think Hoover would agree with me on this, there was a time that we - if we worked for a man, and he had a calf to be slaughtered, he'd give you the innards. The inside of it. Like the chitlins and the hog maws and stuff like that. But now, most restaurants serve chitlins. But there was a time that pig feet, chitlins, the man that you processed calf for, he'd give you all that. He just wanted the prime meat, the prime of it. And he would give you the liver. I used to go - are you familiar with the location of Capital Metro now? See that used to be the slaughter house, where you'd slaughter all your livestock. I would go and get my wagon, and go down, and I'd fill that wagon up with oxtails. Now you don't realize now, oxtails cost more than a T-bone steak. And I remember the time that they'd give you the oxtails, the liver, the kidneys, the chitlins, the hog maws, all that stuff. They'd give it to you. The menudo, that they make the menudo out of - what you call it? Oh - I can't call it. Tripe. They'd give all that to you. But you know, you had to go. I can recall the times that I had to go - Little East was down by the police station. That was East Poultry. I'd go there, and those people, they would take the tip ends of the wing and cut 'em off. And those little tails in the back? They'd give you all of that. I would take those things home, and I'd cook a big pot of those. And we had one of the best little meals, 'cause it was meat. And I can recall the days when I go, in '49, '50, that was when during the wartime. See '45 they didn't make any cars but Ford cars, and it was for military only. But the train would take all the sugar or flour overseas. You couldn't get any of that. And I would go down to the rail, where they docked the trains, and I'd take a little broom and - a what you put - and a screen, and I would go and get sugar. And it would have little splinters and everything in it. And I would sift that sugar through that screen, and go back and have Kool Aid. And everybody was so happy to get Kool Aid. But I'm just sayin' that's when times was hard. I would go down and sometimes I'd get five or ten pounds. 'Cause you couldn't get sugar. They wouldn't sell you no sugar. So I'd get it, 'cause I would get some in the box car. And I'd see some in the corner, and it'd be dirty and everything. I'd sift it through this little thing, had me a little ol' bucket down under, and I'd get it and take it home. And share it with all the neighbors. And everybody would have Kool Aid. I can recall the time that you couldn't get bubble gum. And we had one little store. And we would get it maybe once a month, and he'd have a line all the way down that street almost. Kids waitin' to get bubble gum. Savin' their little money to get the bubble gum. But, he'd run out. He just had so much. But they'd say, "Bubble gum's down at the store!" And everyone would run down there with they little money. And, uh, that's when time's was hard. And see, it was no good stoves and gas stoves and all. We had to use kerosene. We would walk maybe four or five miles and get a little container of kerosene, and come back, and that's what you would use for your stove. So we had to do all that. And lamps and all. See, there was no electricity. And, my first T.V. I think was 1950 for me to look at a T.V. And we when had a chance they took a piece of - we couldn't get a color T.V. - so we'd take colored plastic and put it over and make it a color T.V. That's what you had to do. 'Cause you didn't have it, you had a black one. And the first T.V. was in 1950. And we laid, we was working on a farm - on a man's farm - and he would let us lay on his floor on a palette, and look at the T.V. And we were so excited about that T.V., it was just like a movie. But that's the way things used to be. And, see they'd take you to the farm, and you'd go work and pick cotton. Well, you stayed there all week. Well, the man would sell you eggs, butter, and milk. So you wouldn't go to town. You'd probably bring beans and bacon and everything, but you would never have to town. So you'd stay that whole week. And what he would do - he would just mark it in a book, what he gave you. So by the end of the week, half of the money you made, you gave to him. So that just shows you how hard it was then. But, at least we was eatin'. And I did something - I guess I shouldn't tell you, 'cause I can go to prison for that. We had a -- this man had a- a chickens that would come under the little country house. We had this little country house. And I wanted to meat, chicken. I was tired of eating beans every day. So I took a fishing hook and put a piece of corn on it, and raised the board up and throwed it underneath the house. And when the chicken swallowin' it, I caught him. [Unintelligible]. I pulled him up through there. And we picked that chicken. Now I don't feel good about that, but I was dishonest at times. But we wanted to eat some meat. But I'm just sayin' what a man will do when he's under pressure. Those was hard times. And I had to do somethin'. And that's what happened. But times are so good now. You can go order you a big steak. I - My dad used to tell us, say, "Son-", and he could-he was workin' and he'd buy one steak. And he would eat that steak because he worked all week. And he'd say, "Kids get around now. And y'all sit around and eat that [gravy] while daddy try to eat this ol' tough steak." Now he's sayin' that so you wouldn't ask him for any of it. But that's how hard times was then. Umm-hmmm. But we managed. We made it. And right now, I can just laugh and say we made it. So, you didn't have to go through all those hard times, and I'm glad. But I'm glad I went through 'em because it was an educational thing. I know how to survive. And I know what it take to survive. I can plant a garden. If they said they wasn't gonna sell no produce, I'd raise mine. I raise chickens. People come there 'cause they say they're organic eyes, they don't have chemical in 'em. But a lot of people go to Whole Foods and all that. They went up to five bucks, that lady said. But I don't know. That's what they cost. But anyway, they come get eggs. So I sell, like, I guess twenty or thirty dozen eggs a week. But that's my hobby. That's some of it. And I enjoy that. But that's what I used to have to survive on, what I used to have to make it on, years ago. So, it's been a struggle. But we made it. I tell you. And, um, I just hate that Martin Luther King isn't around to see this now. 'Cause he didn't think he would ever see a black president, but we have one. And we've got plenty, plenty black governors. You got black governors everywhere. And you know, you've got the city manager here - who would think that you've ever have a city manager - they didn't even let us in city hall. And now they got a man that's runnin' it. So it tells you that a change has come. Sam Cook said a change was gonna come, and it's here. But people need to realize where we come from and respect the ones that had to break the ice for 'em. And I think it's gonna be better years to come, 'cause see things are mellowin' down now where they're recognizing you as a man not your color. But before, your color was what stood out. So that, that really changed. I can recall the time when we would go to the rodeo, and this was lately like down through La Grange, we'd fill up on gasoline. And one of my kids would get out to go to the water fountain, and he'd say, "Say, that fountain's not workin'." I'd tell 'em, "Well cut the pump off, it's not working either." And I'm sayin' he just didn't want - and you're just lookin' at a kid leavin' that thing. But that's how people used to be so prejudice, and they don't know why. I don't know if your parents ever talk to you about this, but Scarborough's was one of the leading stores here in Austin. But if you went down - a black lady went down and she wanted a dress - a white lady would try that dress on. But they wouldn't allow a black lady to wear it. If a man wanted a hat or somethin', a white man would put that hat on this head and do it, but they wouldn't let you put it on your head. That just shows you how far we've come. And the water fountain, that fountain, you better not drink out of no water fountain down there. They'd probably put you in jail. They had a little place called Woolworth. And I sat in there, I bet you, almost thirty minutes. They had a little counter, that serving counter. And I'm sittin' in there, and I didn't know better. And I notice this little lady passin' me by, goin' and serving everybody, and people comin' in and after me. And I called and I said, "Lady, I was here before her." And she said, "Sir, I'm sorry. We don't serve blacks here." And I sat there all that time. That was a heartbreaker. For her to tell me that. I was thinkin' everybody was the same, but I was a young kid. And I didn't know. They let me come in there and buy all the toys, so I was thinkin' that this was just a wide open little store. But it wasn't. So that's basically what it boiled down to then. But now, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. Now, the man that you will talk to, Roy Nunn, I kind of feel like he was kind of - they kind of cheated him a little bit. 'Cause he was familiar with everything at Nighthawk, but he never got a chance to be a manager. And he taught so many people. And I think he deserved to get up there to the top, and that's why I just begged Hoover to call him up. Because he needs to come in and express some of his feelings, and let some of it out. 'Cause he's got some in 'em. And he talked to me about it all the time, but you know I was in one location, and he was in another. So I couldn't do too much at that time. But he had guys come in over him that had gone to culinary school and, you know, they had all kind of degrees and everything. But they couldn't cook Nighthawk food. And he was one that - he just refused to fill them in on it. So they couldn't stay, they had to go. 'Cause they couldn't cook what we needed. So, it's been some changes. [End Frank Young. This portion of the interview 23:23. Complete interview length 59:57]
