George Archibald Interview, Part 2 of 2

DT: George, when we left off on the last tape, you were telling me about Mr. Allen and as he tried to educate people up and down the Whooping crane's migratory route. But one of the other things I understand he did was he did one of the very early surveys of cranes in their wintering habitat down on the South Texas coast. And I was curious if you could tell about the origins of the protection of that area, which I guess is now the Aransas National Wildlife Refuge.

00:01:54 - 2411 GA: The Blackjack Peninsula near San Antonio Bay was a huge ranch. There were large wetlands on the Gulf side of the ranch. And local bird watchers, particularly a woman in Rockport named Connie Hagar, knew about Whooping Cranes in that area. That was a place bird watchers could come to see Whooping Cranes, the last place. And because the Whooping cranes were there, the Aransas National Wildlife Refuge was created by purchasing the land from the ranchers. There were Atwater's Prairie Chickens there as well in large numbers. That was in 1935 that the refuge was formally established, and it was in 1940 that Robert Porter Allen began his studies of the Whooping Cranes. And from then on we have had-we have had accurate winter counts, and we have had a good understanding of the habitat needs of the Whooping

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Cranes on the wintering grounds. And then Robert Porter Allen did all of this conservation education with the hunters along the central flyway leading from Aransas through to southern Saskatchewan. And from those wheat fields on the border of the wilderness of the Boreal Forest, he could go no farther, and the Whooping Cranes migrated into the wilderness. Their breeding ground was not discovered until 1954 by accident as a pilot surveying for forest fires looked down and saw these large white birds. Unfortunately, Robert Porter Allen died of a heart attack the year before and never saw the birds on the breeding grounds. Sad story.

00:04:13 - 2411 But today, for the past twelve years, in the town of Port Aransas, we celebrate the Whooping Crane survival with our Whooping Crane Festival sponsored by the town of Port Aransas. And for two days, speakers tell about cranes and other wildlife, and lots of people come to learn and go on boat trips up through the refuge, and to celebrate the continued survival of these very special birds.

DT: Curious. When-when (?) public seems to have this fascination with-with all-not just Whooping Cranes, but all kinds of cranes. And-and it seems like these cranes have a special-I don't know if I should say an iconic value in many different cultures. And I was wondering if you could talk about some of those things that people associate with the cranes. Cranes probably don't know this, but that, you know, folks see a symbol of monogamy, or other s-kinds of traits. What-what-what do you see in them? What do the cultures see in them?

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GA: Yeah. Well, cranes have a special relationship with humans because they're enormous charismatic creatures that people can easily see and understand. You can hear them miles away with their loud calls. You can see them clearly out on the fields and marshes. They engage in-in-they engage in spectacular behaviors, such as their dance, and their unison calls, and their threat postures, and parading around. They are social creatures during the winter, and on migration they get together in groups, and communicate with each other. They have long dagger-like beaks and could inflict serious wounds. So they have developed, they have evolved wonderful ways of communicating to avoid contact, dangerous contact with each other. And humans have observed this. And they think, my gosh, these animals are

00:06:37 - 2411 beautiful, and they're curious about them. And cranes are very, very beautiful. It has been said that there is nothing a crane does that is not graceful. They're very graceful. And they only have one or two juveniles, and you can see them feeding the juvenile crabs or pieces of corn or whatever. They lavish care on their young. And this is very appealing to humans because humans lavish care on their young, too. And there is a-a very lovely bond between cranes and humans because the birds are so graceful and beautiful, and because they have these behavioral traits which very may-much parallel our own species. So consequently, in different cultures, cranes mean different things. To the people in the Orient, they're a symbol of fidelity, long life, good luck, happiness. In tribal areas of Northern Russia where

00:07:57 - 2411 the Siberian Cranes breed, because people seel-feel so happy when they see these gorgeous creatures returning to the tundra in the spring, and see them dance, they feel so happy that they feel if they bring sick people out to see that, they'll be healed. And of course, healing has very much to do with psychological condition. And if you are happy about whatever, apparently your chances of healing improve. So to those traditional people, the cranes bring healing. And I think after that long Arctic winter, it wouldn't take much to bring a little happiness to them. In Africa, the cranes symbolize monogamy. And now, AIDS is re-raging across Africa, and monogamous relationships are promoted. And in recent years, we've discovered a

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lot of taboos. The African people in certain areas know that cranes are monogamous, and they feel if they have a part of the crane on their body that they, too, will be monogamous. So they'll put feathers in their underwear, and some very strange things. But the cranes have this meaning to them. On another level, the crane is a flagship for the conservation of a whole community of organisms, the whole wetland ecosystem, as we call it. And because people care about cranes, if they protect their habitats, the whole ecosystem is protected. So at another level, they have a very important role to humans because they are flagships of ecosystems.

DT: I think that-that some of the work that you and ICF are doing is in areas where there's a lot of strife. You mentioned earlier the-the cranes that-that move up and down through Afghanistan, Iran and some of the-the former Soviet Republics. But I understand another place that you are working is in the demilitarized zone of Korea, and trying to use this bird, not only as a eh-sort of vehicle to protect the wetlands and other protected areas there in the DMZ, but also maybe as a way to usher in a new understanding between North and South Korea. Can you talk about your efforts there?

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GA: One of the most important areas on earth for rare cranes is the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea. It's a hundred and fifty-five miles long and three miles wide at the 38th parallel. And there are two major areas, one in the west in the central part of the country that have critical habitats for Red-crowned Cranes and White-naped Cranes. Half of the world's population of eighty thousand White-naped Cranes depend upon the DMZ. One-third of the mainland Asia population of Red-crowned Cranes-no, one-third of the world population of Red-crowned Cranes depend on the DMZ. Plus a plethora of other species, including the Swan Goose, a rare goose from Mongolia, and the Cinereous Vulture, or Black Vulture, from East

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Asia, and a number of eagles, and so on. Well, this area is an accidental wildlife preserve between two hostile neighbors. Step-by-step North Korea and South Korea are collaborating on economic programs. There are now a hundred and twenty factories built with South Korean money in North Korea in a place called Kaesong just north of the DMZ, and it employs and trains North Koreans to operate these factories producing goods at a fraction of the-what it would cost to do it-the same thing in South Korea because of the lower wages. And there are plans afoot to do more of that. And our most important crane valley, there are plans to call it Reunification City and have all kinds of employment opportunities for North Koreans in factories. So the crane habitat will be annihilated if this continues. So I'm a

00:13:05 - 2411 member of an organization called the DMZ Forum, it-headquartered in the United States. It's just a group of volunteers from a number of organizations that are interested in the DMZ, and we helped form what we call the D-the Coalition for the Conservation of the DMZ, including organizations in South Korea, NGO's for Conservation. We're trying to build up a momentum for the conservation of this area. Well, the forces of development are so powerful, and money is so important, and this area is so strategic, that I have personally decided to try to work in North Korea to help establish an area where these cranes can go should the DMZ go under to development. It's sort of a backup plan. And that is a valley called the

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Hamgyong Valley just north of the DMZ where cranes used to winter in large numbers, but they left in 1995 because of widespread starvation and associated impact from the local people. Likely they were shooting them. If I was star-were starving, I'd likely do the same thing and that same year, the huge increase in birds in the DMZ itself. North Koreans will not even mention the word "DMZ." It's taboo for them. My colleagues can not talk about it. It's only talked about at the highest levels in the government. And through my friendship with Ted Turner, he went-he became involved in this whole thing and went to North Korea and met with the leaders and talked about the conservation of the DMZ, and to the leaders of South

00:15:13 - 2411 Korea. And now he is supporting an organization in South Africa called the Peace Park Foundation that specializes in transboundary nature reserves, started in 1994 by Nelson Mandela doing transboundary nature reserves in countries bordering South Africa. So a great deal of effort is underway to conserve the DMZ, but we certainly have not reached our goal. And in two weeks' time, I'm heading off to North Korea to start our program in the Hambyong Valley. And that will be to help the farmers. I want to introduce green fertilizers rather than the chemical fertilizers they've been depending upon and haven't been able to get since Russia will no longer give them petroleum products. And we're buying some machinery for them, a

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manure spreader, a rice seed sorter, and a few other things, starting sort of from scratch to build what we hope will be a safe area for the wi-cranes to spend the winter, and a place where the local people's needs will be met at the same time. So it's a huge challenge, many unknowns, but a strategic area in which we must be involved.

DT: You have worked, as you pointed out, I mean in-in the former Soviet Republics, China, Korea, Africa, even here in North America. And-and I'm wondering if you could help us bring it back to you. And what is it that gives you the interest and passion to pursue this around the world?

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GA: What fuels my interest in the cranes, every time I see the cranes in the wild, I feel energized. They bring me a special type of energy and passion. And that feeling is shared with people all over the world, as I mentioned. This afternoon I hope we can go out and see and hear the Sandhill Cranes before it gets dark. And I feel just as enthusiastic and committed as I did when I first heard those birds in northern Alberta way back in 1966. And I hope I can continue to help the cranes as long as my life continues. So it's a very fundamental interest I have. I don't know if I answered your question.

DT: No. I-I think it's-it's-it's hard to explain some of these things that are just integral to you, and-I guess a-a-a related question I might ask is that you-your-your concerns don't stop at national boundaries, nor do they stop at species boundaries. You-you still seem to be interested in chickens, especially smart chicken. And (?)...

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GA: Starlings.

DT: ...and Starlings. And I was wondering if you could tell us about your projects in those regards.

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GA: Oh, my wife and I have a great interest in birds, and we keep a lot of domestic birds at my home, just as I did when I was a kid back in Nova Scotia. And we today have Pea Fowls, and turkeys, and chickens, and pigeons, and Guinea hens, and one starling that my wife trained to talk. And it can say in perfect English "Twinkle, twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are, up above the-screech"-can't get to world. But anyway, it's quite amazing to hear. Plus a number of other expressions. And we're very interested in plants, horticulture. And wherever I go in the world, I'm-I'm always interested in the botanical features. And at our home, we have many gardens. So life in all of its forms, whether it's a beautiful flower, or a grass, or a crane, continue to fascinate me.

DT: You mentioned your home. Do you have a-I guess your physical home near Baraboo, Wisconsin. But we often ask people if there is a special spot that's kind of a spiritual home, a place where they like to go because it makes them feel good. And I was-wonder if there's a place that you could describe for us.

00:20:49 - 2411 GA: There's a place that I love to go near my home. It's on the property of a friend, Mr. Phil Pines. He lives across the Wisconsin River. And we sit on the grassy bank having a cocktail at sunset, and it's wonderful to be with a dear friend having a drink. And the sun is setting over the river in the west. The Baraboo hills lift off the plain to the east. And on the sandbanks on the river right in front of us, hundreds of Sandhill Cranes fly in just at sundown. So the geology, the river, the sunset, the cranes, and friendship all meet at that special spot. And I just love to go over there at sunset and sit with Phil and watch the cranes come in.

DT: You have a lot of friends, and I-I was curious what you would tell a young friend about why you think they should care about these things that you have worked on so long.

00:22:16 - 2411 GA: I never say that-I never tell young people that they should be interested in what I'm interested in. I share with them what I'm enthusiastic about, and enthusiasm is contagious. That's one of the characteristics of the human species. You can meet somebody that's enthusiastic about something you never heard of before, and because of that person's interest, you become interested. So it's completely contagious. And that is the greatest type of teaching, if you can ignite someone's interest in something that way. But it has to be genuine. You can't fake it. And when I meet young people, I often try to discover what their interest is, and

00:23:19 - 2411 to encourage them in their fundamental interest, whether it's sports, or photography, or whatever, because I think a very vital thing in life is to discover what your instinctive interests are, if the-if you have them. And if you don't have them, maybe you can help someone develop an interest in something. But I think that likely, if you dig deep enough, everybody has a real interest in something, as I had in birds when I was a little boy.

DT: Well, we're all lucky that you did have that interest in birds.

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GA: Like your daughters. Do they have some fundamental interest in something that you can see?

DT: We'll find out. Stay tuned. Thank you very much for your time today.

00:24:21 - 2411 GA: You're welcome.

DT: Appreciate it. (misc.)