GV: How-how they were able to do that? Well one of the-one of the things that-that came out is-is this whole issue of, in a sense, dematerializing. So for example...(misc.)45:06 - 2183GV: Another-another opportunity that we've had to-to sort of move this kind of way of thinking differently about buildings forward is-is in a private sector contact with HEB, a large grocery store chain that operates primarily in Texas but also in-in Mexico. And they basically came to us and said we want to-we want to have some direction about how to think differently about the way we do stores. This was-this was propelled by a very difficult challenging site that they had in Austin that was being challenged on environmental grounds and so they knew that in order to be successful in-in building that facility there they were going to have to raise their bar significantly to-to basically meet the level of performance that the people of Austin said is going to be necessary to 46:00 - 2183enable you to build on that site. So-so the work involved looking at-at the basic way that they addressed materials primarily and in terms of what we did and also their energy issues. And also the way they just came to a piece of property. So the first step is-is find out what's there before you come in and just grade the whole thing. Find out what's on that piece of property as-as step number one and-and pay attention to it. And if there's something of value there-a plant species, you know, do an inventory and try to bring those plants back into your project. So, that was one component of it. The issue of 46:46 - 2183the materials that they used and-and that evolved interestingly in a sense that-that HEB basically came back and said after we gave them some-some ideas of how to-how to think differently about the materials they put on the floor and-and the way they dealt with concrete and-and different major materials they use, paints and so on. Was, you know, maybe we don't need to paint because what we really want people to come in to the store to do is to look at the food. And so rather than spending all the labor and the-the money on the paint and then having to go and repaint because the stuff starts to chip or gets dirty or whatever, why don't we just leave the pipes the way they are. And 47:29 - 2183similarly with the floor they put in a lot of-just plain concrete flooring. Didn't stain it, because in their way of thinking, you know, we sort of evolved with them, is again why add that extra step. Because thinking about the life cycle stuff that extra step represents a whole bunch of other stuff that happens upstream and downstream. And so by eliminating that you actually get multiple benefits. You get reduced labor, you get reduced environmental impacts, you get less maintenance often times because you're not trying to keep something to look a certain way because you've had to add these layers. So, keeping those layers looking that way is more work. So, that was great. They-they were-they were extremely, I think, moved by their heightened understanding of what 48:28 - 2183that hidden part of their work was. These are people who obviously spent lots and lots of time trying to make their stores work really well. And just on an engineering point of view, it's incredible what goes into, you know, keeping this place cold and keeping this place hot and keeping this place ventilated and everything in a-in a supermarket. I mean it kind of blew my mind-the sophistication on an engineering point of view. But to get them to spend some time thinking about the materiality of it and how they could be contributing to-to the issues that went beyond the walls of their store. I think it opened their eyes and I think-I think they-they really believed that-that was important and that was something that they wanted to pursue.DT: Maybe we can go from-from this topic to talking about how you helped individuals and non-profit groups understand a little bit more about environmental issues. You talked about your work with the City of Austin's Green Builder Program and HEB's building project and operation. But I understand you were also active with a group called Earth Share of Texas, which went into various workplaces to try and raise the profile and-and raise some money for environmental groups. And I thought maybe you could talk about that experience, as well. 49:54 - 2183