C. G. Hamill Interview - C. G. Hamill Interview [part 4 of 5]

PIONEERS IN TEXAS OIL Topic: The Lucas Gusher, Spindletop. Name: Hamill, Curt G. Interviewer: Owens, William A. Place: Kerrville, Texas. Tape No.: 17 Date: 7-17-52 Restrictions: No material to be published without written per-mission. one night I was going over to town from my house.

I lived outside of the town, out in the clear, and I had to pass by a boarding house, going straight to town, and as I come to that boarding house, there was a man standing outside apparently quarreling with a man inside and I passed on by and went on to town to do what I wanted to do and when I come back, I saw that man laying there dead.

The man inside, whoever he was, had shot him and killed him.

I didn't know who the man was inside.

I couldn't see him; I don't know who he was.

And I never heard afterwards anything about that killing.

But there were several men killed in Batson Prairie in the early days.

O.- Why wasn't law enforcement better there?

H.- Well, they tried to enforce the law there, but the people had grown more distant to the law.

The clique that really followed that light, had gotten coarser and coarser as we went from Spindle top to Sour Lake and to Batson Prairie.

I consider that Batson Prairie was the coarsest place we ever had in Texas.

Of course, later, over in Arkansas, I understand they were worse, but I didn't work in that field.

I had some machinery over there but I didn't go there myself.

O.- Yes, sir.

How many people lived in Batson before oil was struck there?

H.- Well, Batson Prairie was-- was just a prairie, and it was just farmers that lived around.

It was a farming section, lived out in woods.

Those people there, they did a little farming and a lot of hunting and-- squirrel shooters, as we used to call them, squirrel turners, lived around in that section.

And some of them fished up and down the Trinity River and they was just good-- good farming people that lived around Batson before the oil field.

O.- Is that in the Big Thicket?

H.- No. The Big Thicket, as I know it, lays between Batson Prairie and Saratoga.

Saratoga, possibly, is in the Big Thicket.

O.- Then how many people were in Batson Prairie at its peak?

H. - Well, I don't believe I was in Batson Prairie in its peak.

I left when the Humble Oil Field opened up.

I followed that on, I followed the boom and went on to Humble, and that was possibly in 1905.

And I believe there was more people in Batson Prairie later.

You might say, the substantial people that stayed and produced the wells that were in Batson Prairie and drilled other wells.

I think the people maybe grew and there was more people there after 1905 than there was prior.

O.- You were never in Saratoga then?

H.- I never did any work in Saratoga.

I've come through.

I used to travel through Saratoga, go from Beaumont to Saratoga on the train, and then drive across from Saratoga in a hack, across a corduroy road that had been built through there.

I've very often seen bear cross the road.

O.- What do you mean by a corduroy road?

H.- Well, that's timber throwed across the road so that the--and throw some dirt on top of those timbers, just like you'd throw crossties on a railroad, only they was just jammed to-gether.

And they'd throw some-- but they were pretty rough riding, I guarantee you.

O.- Well, when did you go to Humble? 1905?

H.- Possibly 1905.

The field was in when I went there.

O.- And you immediately began contracting there?

H.- Yes.

O.- How many wells do you suppose you drilled at Humble?

H.- Oh, I drilled quite a number of wells in Humble. I wouldn't know the number.

O. - How many years were you in Humble?

H.- I was in Humble up until 1910.

O.- 1910.

H.- I was there about five years.

O.- And you watched it grow into a big field?

H.- Yes.

O.- Why did you decide to leave Humble then?

H.- Well, I was offered a contract in Louisiana by Mr. Fisher who was with the Gulf.

And I went over to Louisiana to look this over and I, while I was loading my machinery-- I was gonna take the contract, but while I was loading my machinery, Ed Simms sent out for me to go to Markham.

He wanted me to ship this rig instead of going to Louisiana, go to Markham.

So he out-talked me and I wired Mr. Fisher that I didn't want to take the job over in Louisiana and I went to Markham.

That's south of Bay City.

And I stayed, in fact, still have production in the Markham Oil Field.

That is, my children have.

O.- Yes, sir.

H.- I retired in-- well, I retired eight years ago this Octo-ber and I assigned, set aside, all the-- all the working interests that had accumulated during my active life, I just signed it over to the children.

O.- Yes, sir.

H.- And they have carried on and doing well with it.

O.- So they still have production in Markham field?

H.- They have production in Markham field.

O.- So you spent a number of years in Bay City?

H.- Yes. I lived in Bay City from 1910 till 1920 and maybe a little later.

I've forgotten the year I lived-- left, moving into Houston.

O.- Yes, sir. And then to San Antonio, then to Kerrville.

H.- We moved from-- later on, we moved to San Antonio and lived in San Antone [San Antonio] 17 years, and then we moved here to Kerrville.

O.- Did your brothers Jim and Al continue contracting?

H. - Yes, they-- they-- after I retired from working for them they took in a man named Forney, and the three of them contracted for a while and finally the firm of-- split up and Forney went to contracting Individually.

A short time later, after that, Al and Jim split up their partnership and each one of them went their way.

And about that time, my half-brother, who was at home taking care of my father, decided he'd come to the oil field and he come down and went to work for Jim Hamill.

O.- What was his name?

H.- R. L. Hamill.

And he worked with Jim for some time.

And during his stay at Batson Prairie, Jim kinda quit contracting and R. L. went to work for me.

And he stayed with me in different channels and was a driller for me and was with me clear through until the time I went to the Markham oil field and worked for me a year or two there.

And finally he went in the cow business and still worked for me at night.

Later on, at the age of about 60, he retired from the oil field altogether and he died last-- about a year ago.

O.- Jim is dead also?

H.- Jim has been dead about five years.

O.- And Al lives in Tulsa?

H.- Al lives in Tulsa.

O.- When did you see him last?

H.- Well, I haven't seen Al for four or five years.

He's confined pretty well at home and I don't travel much, so we just haven't been together for some time.

O.- He came down for the Spindletop celebration.

H.- Yes, he was at the Spindletop celebration, but I was sick in the hospital at that time and I didn't get to go.

O.- Who was the most important person in developing Spindletop outside of Guffey and Galey?

H.- Well, I believe Mr. J. S. Cullinan was considered the foremost oil man of Texas at the bringing in of Spindletop.

He was the-- at the head of the Corsicana Petroleum Company, which was the only real oil company that was in Texas, as far as I know, at that time.

I think the next man in line would be Walter Sharp, then there was Mr. Gates, who was possibly the biggest financier in the business.

O.- "Bet-a-Million" Gates?

H.- Yes. And, of course, there was the Parishes and Blaffer and Ed Simms, H. T. Stati and other men that I just can't call their names offhand.

But they were men who was capable and able to do things, finance and have wells drilled.

O.- Yes, sir.

H.- Of course, Governor Hogg was a very instrumental figure in Spindletop.

O.- Yes, sir.

H.- He formed the Hogg-Swayne Syndicate there and sold small tracts of land and was the cause of numbers of wells being drilled.

And brought lots of money and lots of people into the field at that time.

So I think those, that class of people who have now passed out of the picture-- they're all gone and there's nothing left hardly, just a few men living that really had much to do with Spindletop.

O.- Yes, sir. Were you on the Hogg-Swayne tract at any time?

H.- Oh, yes. Yes, I've drilled some wells on the Hogg-Swayne tract.

O.- Were the wells very close together?

H.- Yes, they was-- sometimes the derricks was touching each other, right up against each other.

O.- Was that unusual?

H.- Uh, it-- it wasn't unusual for that field, but I'd never been in a field where they did that.

O.- Were you there when they had their big fire?

H.- Oh, yes, I was-- the big-- you mean, the waste oil fire?

O.- No. The Hogg-Swayne fire.

H.- Oh, yes. Yes, I was right there.

O.- Did they lose heavily in that?

H.- The Hogg-Swayne people?

O.- Yes.

H.- No, I don't think the Hogg-Swaynes lost heavily other than just the amount of oil that they was possibly getting from- for payments on their wells.

They lost that.

The machinery that was burned up-- I lost a machine in that fire myself.

And I would say they didn't own any machinery.

I don't recall the Hogg-Swaynes owning any machinery.

But they was a fine pair of people and Governor Hogg was a very lovable character and he at one time offered me all of Sour Lake.

And he said, "I might put some money in with you if you'll go down there and drill us a well."

But I didn't go because I didn't have the money to get off and I didn't want to wildcat anymore when the Spindletop had more oil than we could use.

O.- Yes, sir.

H.- For ourself.

And at that time, oil was worth, oh, eight and ten and fifteen cents a barrel.

O.- Did you ever try to lease from him?

H.- Yes, I-- I went to the Governor one time and-- I got it in my head I'd like to drill a well for myself and I went in and talked to him about it and-- he always called me Curt.

And I says, "Governor, I'd like to buy one of those little strips you got out there, those spots."

And he says, "Why, you don't want to produce oil."

He says, "I-- you can't sell the oil when you get it."

And says, "You don't want to produce oil."

And I says, "Yes, I'd like to have a well of my own."

"Well," he says, "I'll sell you one of those blocks out there all right for a certain amount of money."

"Well," I says, "Governor, that sounds kinda high to me."

Well, he kinda reared back in his chair-- he was a large man-- and he says, "Well," he says, "Curt, Hogg's my name and hog's my nature," and give a big hearty laugh.

So, of course, I didn't buy the piece of ground.

O.- Were there a lot of Jim Hogg stories around Beaumont in those days?

H. - Oh, yes, yes. There was fellows told stories.

He was a great fellow and a good story teller himself.

O.- Do you remember any of the other stories about him?

H.- No, I just don't recall just now any of the little stories that he got a kick out of as much as anybody else.

But I know they was going around.

O.- Did you have any personal interviews with Mr. Swayne?

H.- Oh, yes, yes. I talked to Mr. Swayne a number of times.

And he was quite a character himself.

He was the man that was out in the field more than Governor Hogg was.

In latter years, I have a letter of introduction and recommendation.

I met Mr. Swayne on a street in Ft. Worth years later and he says, "I want to give you a letter you might could use sometime."

And a few days later-- later, I received that letter through the mail, and I never had a letter that I appreciate more than I do the letter from Judge Swayne.

O.-I imagine. What kind of person was he in those days of Spindletop?

H.- Judge Swayne?

O.- Yes.

H. - Well, he was just a nice, good, clean business man as I re-member him.

O.- Yes, sir. How did it happen that he went into the field more?

H.- I wouldn't-- I wouldn't know too much about the connection of Hogg-Swayne.

I know how the Governor stayed in town and Swayne would take men out to the field or be out there with them.

And I seen him in the field more often than I did the governor.

O.- When did you first see J. S. Cullinan at Spindletop?

H.- Mr, Cullinan come in possibly the second day after the well was running wild.

There was quite a good deal of oil in the valley at that time.

And I knew Mr. Cullinan very well at Corsicana before I moved away from there to Beaumont-- or Spindletop.

And he called to me and asked me to come over to his hack where he was and he told me, he says, "Now, you be sure that--keep the cattle away from that oil because if they drink it, it'll kill them."

And that was my first knowledge of Mr. Cullinan being at the Lucas Well.

I think Mr. Walter Sharp was with him at that time and there was four of them in the hack, but I didn't know the other two.

But I'm pretty sure it was Mr. Sharp.

My recollection is it was Walter Sharp, whom I knew very well at that time.

O.- Yes, sir. What about other meetings with Mr. Cullinan then?

H.- Well, I met Mr. Cullinan on several occasions, and most every time I ever met Mr. Cullinan, he says, "If you ever need any help, come up and see me. I'd be glad to help you if you need any help."

But I never did go to see Mr. Cullinan for that reason.

I've gone to him, visited in his office at various times, but I never did call on him for help.

O.- He was a good oil man?

H. - Well, he was considered a good oil man and was at the head of the-- after the Texas Company was organized, he was the head of the Texas Company.

O.- Did he have any special tricks for locating oil?

H.- I wouldn't know about that.

O.- When did you first know Mr. Walter Sharp?

H.- Well, I knew Walter Sharp in Corsicana, he and Jim Sharp both.

And they were amongst the first contractors to come to Spindletop after the well blew in.

They had been to Spindletop in previous years and had drilled a well there and was unable to finish the well below something like 400 feet.

O.- Why did they fail?

H.- Well, they just couldn't get through the sand.

O.- You were telling about gas in old wells on Spindletop while you were drilling there.

H.- Yes.

O.- Could you tell those stories again?

H.- Well, there was a casing there-- I believe it was an eight-inch casing-- I don't know whether it's the well that Mr. Sharp or someone else drilled.

There was some two or three wells had been drilled and they all failed to get below something like 400 feet, but this particular well there had an eight-inch casing in it.

It could have been a six but as I remember it, it was an eight-inch.

That-- you could drop a match in that well or a piece of burning paper and it would ignite down in the hole.

And during this time, there was a lady who seemed to be kind of a scout.

She made a trip out there to our well every two or three days.

And someone had told her about this well that would burn and she stopped at the boiler and asked Peck Byrd if he could tell her where that well was that would burn.

He told her yes, that she could go right up on the hill and she could drop a match down there, a lighted match down there, and it would ignite down in the hole.

So she goes up there and found the casing and she ignited a piece of paper, according to her story afterwards, and dropped this paper in the-- in the hole and kept a looking down in the hole and the gas went out and when it exploded, the blaze come up and burned her face pretty bad.

And she went over to Charlie Ingals, a farmer that lived close by, and Mrs. Ingals rubbed her face with cream and enabled her to get back to Beaumont.

O.- That could have been a Lucas Well or a Sharp Well, you think, if they....

H.- No, it wasn't a Lucas well.

O.- He had tried before, but you know....

H.- Lucas drilled his two wells -- I think Lucas drilled two wells -- and those two wells were both drilled over close to Gladys City.

O.- Oh, I see.

H.- On the other side of the hill.

But these wells were drilled in a proper place, if they'd gotten down, they'd have got oil wells.

They was right on top of the dome.

Find locations, each one of them.

But that sand that runs below 400 feet, they just couldn't get through it for some fault or other.

And we couldn't get through it with our machinery other than driving through it.

It was perseverance and hard work that we got through that sand and really made the Lucas Well.

O.- What kind of man was Sharp?

H.- Well, Sharp was a very fine man.

Very good well man.

Man with good judgment in every respect as I knew him.

A capable man all around.

O.- You saw him many times.

H.- Oh, yes. Yes.

O.- What was his physical appearance at that time?

H. - Well, Walter Sharp was a fairly tall, kind of a-- I would say kind of a rawbone man, redheaded man.

Good natured as far as I knew him. I....

O.- You mentioned earlier his matching dollars with someone. Would you tell that story?

H.- Well, I've seen Walter Sharp, and Colonel Crawford and Howard Hughes, we'll say, at the-- waiting for the train at the depot at Sour Lake, flip dollars for as high as a thousand dollars a crack, for an hour at a time.

Then when the train would come, one of them would be a thousand or two thousand dollars ahead, which was all right.

It was just like me flipping that many nickles. Didn't seem to bother whether they lost. They'd laugh and go on.

O.- They did carry a great deal of money with them then?

H. - Well, yes. Those men did carry a good deal of money.

How-ever, the-- the change of that day was silver dollars and-- but I've seen at one time, I knew of one deal where Walter Sharp just pitched $11,000 in greenbacks over in a woman's lap for a lease she had.

That was at Spindletop.

O.- Did she take it?

H.- Yes. Yes, she sold him the lease. It was away from the hill. It never did produce any oil.

But that was just a day's work to those people, you know.

O.- Yes, sir. Where did you first know Jim Sharp?

H.- Well, I knew Jim Sharp at Corsicana. However, I wasn't as well acquainted with him then as I afterwards was at Spindletop.

Jim Sharp was a fine fellow. He was a different type of man from Walter altogether. He was a kind of a sporty type of man.

And if he liked you, he was one of the best fellows you ever saw and best friend you ever had was Jim Sharp, if he like you.

And if he didn't like you, he just wasn't around you, that was all.

And I always considered Jim Sharp a friend of mine.

O.- Did you work with either one of them at any time?

H.- No, I never had any business connections with either one of them.

O.- Right after the gusher came in, there were a great number of celebrations in Beaumont, I take it.

H.- Yes, they-- they was lots of people there and they seemed to be just one big celebration.

They was having them-- they was showing people a good time. They wanted to, and, of course, it was hard to take care of the people there.

But there was cele-brations given for the Hamill boys, but I never could get in on any of those celebrations for the reason that I had to stay at the well and keep the people away from it to keep it from catching fire.

So I didn't get in on any of the celebrations.

O.- Did you call celebrations 'blowouts'?

H.- Yes, some of them. And they were blowouts.

O.- Were most of them at the Crosby Hotel, do you think, or....

H.- Well, in different places. Of course, the Crosby Hotel was the center of attraction at that time.

O.- Did you get into the Crosby very often yourself?

H. - No. In fact, I didn't get away from Spindletop until after I had drilled the Gladys No. 1.

I never did get into Beaumont. I was tied up absolutely right there in the field. I just couldn't get in there.

And, oh, I may have drove in there at night just to-- maybe to get something that I-- clothing, or something like that that I don't recall ever going in.

But I never went in on any of the celebrations.

I was invited by--Steve Pipkins seemed to be my best friend and old man Salensky who run a grocery store.

They delivered us groceries out to the-- to our place.

And Mr. Pipkin was a very close friend of mine and also George Carroll.

George Carroll was an awfully good friend of mine and I did a lot of work for George Carroll in a matter of years after the Spindletop boom.

O.- Was he a producer as well?

H.- Mr. Carroll drilled wells. He tried to produce and I just can't recall whether Mr. Carroll ever got in some big produc-tion or not.

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