Ashley Weaver Interview

  • PIONEERS IN TEXAS OIL TOPIC: Beaumont, before and during the oil boom NAME: Ashley Weaver INTERVIEWER: W. A. Owens PLACE: Beaumont, Texas TAPE NO. 111 DATE: 7/17/53 RESTRICTIONS: None
  • Owen.- This is an interview with Mr. Ashley Weaver in the Hotel Beaumont, Beaumont, Texas, July 17, 1953 When were you born, sir?
  • Weaver.- On June 12, 1883, in Shreveport, Louisiana.
  • O.- And when did you come to Beaumont?
  • W.- In the fall of 1886, directly after the storm in Sabine Pass. O.- Yes. W.- In which there were about 120 out of 300 inhabitants that were drowned.
  • O.- Here in Beaumont?
  • W.- No, in Sabine Pass.
  • O.- In Sabine Pass, yes. Well, can you tell me something about your parents?
  • W.- Yes. My father was a native of Virginia, and my mother of Louisiana, of Shreveport. And they made their home there until we moved to Sabine Pass in 1885. And that next year this terrible storm took place and most of our property was destroyed. And we came to Beaumont from Sabine Pass on boat. We were located at the old Crosby House. And two weeks after we arrived in Beaumont, my sister Josephine Weaver was born. And she was named after Mrs., Mrs. Goodhue; her name was Josephine Goodhue Weaver. We lived at the Crosby House for a short time and
  • Beaumont has been my home since that time with the exception of two years I spent in France in the first World War, and a year and a half in Switzerland.
  • O.- Yes. Well, what business was your father engaged in?
  • W. - Well, my father was in the insurance business here. He was a notary public and you will find his seal and signature on a number of instruments that were handled during the boom.
  • O.- Yes. Well, you had your schooling in Beaumont?
  • W.- Yes, I went to the public schools here. I did not finish school, as I was quite ill. And I spent a while at Port Arthur riding the prairie there and my health was fully regained. I used to deliver the Galveston News in Port Arthur, and I had to ride each day over to the railroad, I forget, to Taylor's Bayou, to pick up these papers. And then I came back to Beaumont and I worked a short time for the Kansas City Southern Railroad. After that I was with the Sabine Tram Company, one of the lumber companies in existence at that time. And then I went with the American National Bank, and I have been with them about 53 years.
  • O.- That's quite a time. Well, would you describe to me the lumber industry as they were operating in Beaumont in 1900, say?
  • W. - Well, I was a lad of just about 10 or 12 years at that time. And my recollection is of three mills. The Reliance Lumber Company, which was located in the north end of town, and the Sabine Tram Company, which was located about the center of the town, and the Beaumont Lumber Company Mill was down where the docks are now locate. Each one of these mills had a store.
  • O.- Commissary?
  • W.- Yes, It was sort of a commissary. And their offices were in the same building. They furnished credit to their employees, which mostly consisted of Negroes. And they many times paid off in checks. These checks were in the denomination of five, ten, twenty-five, fifty, and a dollar and five dollars. As I remember, they were different colors and they were made of cardboard. And each one had the name of the company. These checks were, you could use them most anywhere at town, in town at various stores. And they were in circulation pretty well throughout the town. There were times when one company's check might not be as desirable as it was at other times or as some of the other.
  • O.- Yes. Was it good for crap shooting money for the Negroes or....?
  • W.- Well, I don't recall that there was but I'm sure if they shot craps it was. O.- Yes. W.- It was used just as we use money now.
  • O.- What did they usually sell in those stores, can you recall?
  • W.- Oh, yes, they sold dry goods, they sold all kinds of hams and meats, and they were pretty well, sugar and all sorts of staple O.- Yes. W.- As well as shoes and dry goods and so forth like that.
  • O.- Yes. Well, did they have much fruit for sale in a town like this?
  • W.- No, there was not a lot of fruit except around the holidays. But in those days oranges grew pretty well here and I have been
  • with my father in a buggy from here to Port Neches, where you could get oranges, a 100 oranges for a dollar. And they were very fine, or what we call now Louisiana sweet oranges.
  • O. - Yes. Why did they give up growing them?
  • W.- Well, I think from time to time the freeze, there were freezes. And it got so the trees just about the time they'd get up to where they were profitable why the trees would be frozen. And they're not so many of them nowadays.
  • O.- Yes. Have they tried papayas here very much?
  • W.- I don't think they have ever. At one time, I and a number of other people tried to raise the eucalyptus trees around here. But they would get up pretty good size and a freeze would come along. And they're not really adapted to this.
  • O.- No, they're not. Well -
  • W.- In those days I will say,though, that in the fall of the year when the peaches were ripe there would be caravans which would come from Jasper where they raised very fine peaches. And they would come down here in covered wagons. And at that time my home was on Park Square, Park Street, what is Park Street now. And it was located between what was known as the Double Bridges. And we had about five acres there. And each year when these caravans of peaches came, they came and spent the night in our back lot.
  • O.- Yes. W.- And they had, those days they raised very beautiful peaches. Of course, they were very cheap, but everybody preserved them. And it was quite a, there was quite a market for it here.
  • O.- Big canning season then?
  • W.- Well, it was not exactly canning then, people didn't can so much.
  • O.- They didn't, they preserved.
  • W.- They preserved and put them up in jars. We didn't have the facilities for canning. O.- Yes. W.- At the same time many boats would come from Sabine Pass to the foot of Pearl Street, and loaded with oysters. O.- Yes. W.- And during the oyster season, and you could go down there and just get about all the oysters you could eat for 25 or 50 cents there. And then they sold them in gallons, gallons and half-gallons and they were very cheap and just very fine oysters. O.- Yes. W. - The oyster business is not so good at Sabine Pass since the canals have been built and so much fresh water comes down. And the oysters do not grow there as they did in those days.
  • O.- Yes. Well, what about the fishing? Did they bring in quite a bit of fish here at that time or not?
  • W.- Well, I don't recall that they did but then fishing was excellent around here. You could go down just a short ways, down by what I believe was known as Ten Mile Bayou, which is just below where the Magnolia Reginery is. And you could just catch all the beautiful perch and things that you could possibly take care of. The streams were, well, were all well stocked, - O.- Yes. W.- --with fish in those days.
  • O.- All right. Now what about the problems of the youngster in Beaumont before the boom? Did you have particular problems?
  • W.- No, no we didn't. There was - juvenile delinquency was practically unheard of. The public schools were very good, the private schools were good. You very seldom ever heard of people being on the relief rolls as they are now. And when families were in trouble, the neighbors and other people always rallied to help them out. O.- Yes. W.- And to me, it was a much happier existence than it is now, when everybody expects to be taken care of, whether they are entitled to it or not.
  • O.- Yes. What was the situation of the Negroes in Beaumont before the oil boom?
  • W. - The Negroes were a very happy, hard-working lot of people. They didn't have much but they didn't want much. And there was, we never had any trouble to amount to, between the two races. They got along beautifully. Those that were servants to white people, the white people loved them as members of their family and took care of them in their troubles. And it was quite different from what it is now,
  • O.- Yes. You didn't have any flare-ups at all that you can re-call?
  • W.- No, I don't recall any flare-ups at all. There might have been one or two occasions when something happened that we had a little trouble. But that was with an individual -- O.- Yes. W.- - and not with the race as a whole.
  • O.- All right. Where were you when they started drilling out at Spindletop?
  • W.- Well, I was in Beaumont.
  • O.- Did you go out any during the drilling time?
  • W.- No, I did not go out any during the drilling time when the field was brought in. But a few years prior to that when they were attempting to locate oil there, Mr. Patillo Higgins and some others, I went with my father out to what we then called Big Hill, plover hunting. And we drove in a buggy and we killed a number of plover. My father would let me drive the buggy right up close to them, and after the bird rose, why he would shoot them. They are very tame with anybody on horseback, in a car, or in a conveyance of any kind. But you can't get near them on foot. At that time, as I started before, we called that Big Hill. And Spindletop was to us a spring that was located several miles from Spindle, I mean from Big Hill. And we went there many times on picnics. We had Sunday School picnics there and school picnics, family picnics. The water was quite good in the spring and the woods were very pretty. And I don't know how the name ever happened to be applied to the oil field. Because it was definitely applied to this spring, in the vicinity of that spring prior to the oil boom.
  • O.- Yes. Have they ever had wells around Spindletop Park?
  • W.- They have tried, I think, but have never been successful.
  • O.- Yes. The field then is on Big Hill itself?
  • W.- No, it is not exactly on Big Hill. It is, some of the best wells were found around the flank of the Hill. The original gusher was on the Hill and many people think that it was a streak of luck that they got it because not many wells are found, or
  • drilled successfully on the top of salt domes. This evidently was a, there was a break in the dome or something. And then later on they found oil on the flanks - O.- Yes. W.- ---which brought on another lot of activity,
  • O.- Yes. Now how much elevation does that Hill have, do you suppose?
  • W.- I would hate to, I'm not a very good judge of that, but I would imagine that it was, oh, fifteen or eighteen feet higher than -
  • O.- Higher than the other. Well, I've read that the elevation of the town of Beaumont is twenty-six feet, so you think that might be around forty feet?
  • W.- No, I don't, because I don't believe the elevation of Beaumont is quite that much. O.- Yes. You think it's not that? W.- No, I don't. There may be places where it is, but I don't think so. Because if you go to the river here, the banks are not that - O.- No. W.- -high I don't think.
  • O.- No. Originally it was called, what Tevis (?) Bluff?
  • W.- Well, I don't know about that. But I know the Tevises, I've known them. They were an old, old family, there are many of them who still live here. One of them at the time that Spindletop was here was one of the old law officials.
  • O.- Is that right? W.- I believe most of that family passed away. O.- Yes. W.- The Tevis families were officers, old man Doc Tevis, and then his son, Reed Tevis, and I believe there was another boy, George Tevis.
  • O.- Well, how soon after the gusher came in did you go out to the field?
  • W. - The gusher had been going about a day or two, and I got a horse and rode out horseback. It was quite a long ride in those days and it was in the wintertime and pretty cold. But it was only a day or two after the gusher. And then---
  • O.- Yes. Well, I'd like for you to describe the scene that you saw out there.
  • W.- Well, we were all amazed. And there, of course there were not very many people out there when I went because the people had not started coming in. But it was only a short time after that that train loads came in. And most of the people who went out to Spindletop passed by my home which is now Park Street. And there was quite a noise on these bridges, and there were big ditches there. And that's the reason this place was called Double Bridges. O.- Yes. W.- There were two ditches and where they joined a little bit later. And then, after they joined they ran into the Neches River and that drained quite a bit of all of this back part of the country.
  • O.- Yes. Well, the people had to pass by your place then to go
  • from Beaumont ---
  • W. - Yes. O.- --out to Spindletop.
  • W. - And many times when they got to hauling heavy things it was almost impassable because there was so much traffic. And the mud was so bad that they could hardly go.
  • O.- Yes. There was no pavement then in Beaumont.
  • W.- No, no pavement in Beaumont at that time. See, the sidewalks were all wooden sidewalks. In many cases they were dangerous be-cause they would rot out, you see. O.- Yes. W.- And you might step in, you had to be careful. But people weren't anxious to sue the city and I never heard of a suit -- O.- Yes. W.- --- in those days.
  • O.- Well, when the people began pouring in, what happened to the living quarters in general?
  • W.- Well, of course everybody tried to find a place to stay especially at night. Some people would sleep in places in the daytime and then others would sleep in there at night. And many people in their homes. I recall that we fixed up some places out at our house and took care of some of the people. We always tried to be very careful as to who we took in. But we did it to help out the situation because there were so many people here that there was no place for them to stay.
  • O.- Yes. About what rates were charged for accommodations then?
  • W.- Well, they were very different from what they are now. I
  • I don't think they were but a dollar or two a night.
  • O.- I've heard stories that people even rented out their bathtubs for others to sleep in. Do you believe those?
  • W.- Well, no, I don't know of that but it might have been done. There were not too many bathtubs here then.
  • O.- Yes. I was going to ask you about the sanitary facilities in the town at that time.
  • W.- Well, of course they were rather crude, especially compared to now. And as I say, it wasn't everybody that had bathtubs. I know at that time we, our bathtub was made of copper. It was sort of a home-made affair, and it was considered an awful good one. O.- Yes. W.- But I don't, there weren't too many people that had, and most, most everybody used, their sanitary things were out in the yard. O.- Yes. W.- Ours were, they were down on the side of the ditch.
  • O. - Yes. Then there was not much running water in the town, I suppose?
  • W.- No, no, there wasn't; we used a cistern.
  • O.- You didn't have a city system then when the boom came?
  • W.- Well, we didn't, where we lived on Park Street we, we had cisterns -- O.- Yes. W.- --- and wells. We had a well in our lot that you had to pump to fill for the cattle, And then we had a big cistern at our
  • house. I recall that many, many times the wiggletails were very plentiful in those. But we never did, we sometimes had to tie a white piece of cheesecloth underneath there to strain the water when it came out.
  • O.- Yes. Must have been many mosquitoes then?
  • W.- Well, I don't recall that there were any more than there are at times ----
  • O.- Even now.
  • W.- ---- even now. They, they did get bad at times but not---
  • O.- Well, did you as a youngster engage in anything to make money during that time of the boom?
  • W.- No, I was going to school and I did not.
  • O.- You didn't even get into selling "bottles of oil to the---
  • W.- No, no, I didn't.
  • O.- You saw that go on, I suppose?
  • W.- Yes, I saw that go on.
  • O.- Some of the boys certainly did. Well, how many hotels were in the town when the boom came?
  • W.- Well, the only ones that I recall was the old Telegraph Hotel, which was located on what is now North Main. It is located where the Catholic, let's see, Knights of Columbus place is. There was another sort of a family boarding house over on what is Pine Street; it was called the Jordan House. And then, of course, the Crosby House was the main --- O.- Yes. W.- --- hotel. It was a big frame structure and right back of the Crosby House was the old Goodhue Opera House. We used to
  • have road shows that came here.
  • O.- Did you have road shows before the boom or after?
  • W. - Yes, we did. We had them before the boom.
  • O. - Can you remember some of the shows that were brought here?
  • W. - Oh, yes, there, there was some of the good old, I think Rip Van Winkle was here and ----
  • O.- Was Joseph Jefferson by any chance? W.- Joseph Jefferson. O.- Is that right?
  • W.- And then in later years the Kyle Theater was just a short time afterwards built. We had many fine artists who came here like Galli-Curci and Schumann-Heink, and Pavlova, and as well as many of the other actors and actresses. O.- Yes. W.- Will Rogers.
  • O.- In other words you got the best of the traveling people then?
  • W.- Yes, I think one reason for that was that we were on the Southern Pacific Railroad, between New Orleans and Houston on the way to the Pacific Coast. O.- Yes.
  • W.- And the shows would stop off here.
  • O.- Most of those were in the Kyle Theater, you say?
  • W.- Well, in later years they were. But we had a good many of very good old shows. And then the home talent shows were, they had those very often. O.- Yes. W.- And even in the old Goodhue Opera House. Then they had some
  • of their big town parties in the old Goodhue Opera House.
  • O.- Was there any feeling of the church people against the theater?
  • W.- Well, there was to a certain extent. Some of the churches were not as broad as they are now and they didn't believe in dancing. Some of them thought that if you were an actor or an actress that you weren't too good.
  • O.- Yes. Well, actually what places did they have to dance before the boom?
  • W.- Well, there was a, right where the Central Fire Station is located now, there was a hall there. And there was an elderly gentleman by the name of Professor Cheesman, who ---some of his family still live around in these parts. He gave dancing for many, many years. We all took lessons from --- O.- Yes. W.- --Professor Cheesman.
  • O.- And did you have dances in the homes?
  • W.- Oh yes, we had dances in the homes. Lots of places in the attics and different places like that. There were some string bands around here and then later Mr. Sidney Meyer, who had quite a big, large tobacco store here, cigars and cigarettes and things like that, why he headed a band. He always played for the opera house, for the shows that came here.
  • O.- Yes, and for the dances as well?
  • W.- And for lots of the dances. Just about that time, too, the Elks Club, especially after the Goodhue, I mean after the Kyle Opera House was built, the Elks Club was quite a social club. It
  • occupied one of the floors and the Neches Club occupied the other. And all of the social affairs were in those two clubs, particularly in the Neches Club. The Neches Club annual ball was quite an event, and people came from oh, many parts of Texas to go to it. Course that was sometime after the boom.
  • O.- Yes. Well, when the boom came, you had a great number of drifters come in, of course? W.- Yes. O.- Did they largely take over the social affairs for awhile?
  • W.- Well, no, not altogether. They, at that time a large hotel was built on Calder Avenue right where the Mildred building is now. It was known as the Oaks. There were a lot of oak trees there. It was quite a large hotel and then most of the people like the Sharps, and many of those prominent oil people lived in that hotel. They had a ballroom there and many social events were held --- O.- Yes. W.- -there too. You had to go to and from, that of course was before the automobile. And you went to and from those in a carriage or in a buggy, or some other sort of conveyance.
  • O. - Yes. Well, I've understood that the Crosby House became the center of business affairs in the oil industry.
  • W. - Yes, it did because they built a lot of little cubby holes out in front and rented them. Right in front of the hotel there was a little vacant space and there was some chinaberry trees in there. And so they built these offices in there. And then they opened up an exchange, an oil exchange over in the old Goodhue
  • Opera House building. The people who had stores or offices right close to the Crosby, they rented space. There was the old --- well, the old Haggeman and Kidd saloon was there. And then Mr. Sachs had a barber shop there and Coulter had a jewelry store. And down on the corner was the old Dunlap Drug Store. And Mr. Leon R. Levy, whose, some of his family's still here. Mr. Levy had a big clothing store all in that block. And at one time Mr. S. Ledrow had quite a nice store there where he had vegetables, and mostly staple goods.
  • O.- Yes. So all of those places rented space to the oil people?
  • W.- Well, yes. And gradually some of them, their leases were taken over and one or two of them, they opened up a bank. And things moved pretty fast.
  • O.- Yes, I can imagine. How many saloons actually were there here when the place, when the boom came?
  • W. - I don't recall how many saloons there were. There were a good many. They were first class saloons though. They were not really places, dens of iniquity, I don't think. But I don't just recall how many we had in Beaumont. There were a good many.
  • O.- Yes. Do you recall some of the popular ones, the---
  • W.- Yes. The Ogden saloon was quite a popular one. There was a Mr. Hirsch, who built a home that is now the Broussard undertaking parlor. He had a big saloon over on the corner, the triangle. Well, it was right where the Chamber of Commerce building is. O.- Yes. W.- Right back of him the Jewish Rabbi, Mr., Rabbi, I believe it was Rabbi Levy, lived. The post office was located on that tri-
  • angle, too. O.- Yes. W.- And Zaffer's Book Store and then on one of the corners there was the old Edidcer (?) Dry Goods Store.
  • O.- Can you recall what the inside of any of those saloons looked like? What was the ---
  • W.- Yes, I do. The bar was always very clean and they had a brass rail. As a matter of fact, I was raised -- my father went into a saloon to get a glass of beer and I went with him. If I wanted one I could have it. O.- Yes. W.- And I attribute that to, in part to, the fact that it doesn't mean a thing in the world to me now, liquor of any kind.
  • O.- You were never kept away from it then?
  • W.- No. If my father went in I could go in with him. If he had a glass of beer I could have one if I wanted it.
  • O. - Well, what was in general the behavior of the people in those saloons before the boom?
  • W.- It was, as far as I know, it was good, very good, excellent. I don't think -
  • O.- There was very little lawlessness here then.
  • W.- Very little lawlessness. We had very little trouble.
  • O.- Yes. Well, what was the, was there much of a contrast, when all the people came in?
  • W.- Well, naturally there was because there were bad that came in. And it did get out of hand to a certain extent. There were more killings and robberies but I wouldn't say that it was ever too
  • bad. O.- Yes. W.- I recall at one time, just across the street from the American National Bank there was a Catholic Church. And then a little farther down the block there was a saloon. One night Carrie Nation was here and she had given her lecture. I was an usher in the theater. I use to usher to get to go to see the shows free. She was coming back down to a boarding house that whe was staying at, which was located right in this neighborhood. And I had her grip and she darted into one of those saloons and I just put her grip down on the sidewalk and left, went on home.
  • O.- What did she do in the saloon, did you see?
  • W.- I don't know what she did, I didn't stop to see. But she did not break up anything. She may have---
  • O.- Did she have her hatchet with her?
  • W.- No, she didn't have her hatchet with her and she didn't, she just went in there and gave them a tongue lashing. O.- Yes. W.- But I didn't stay for it. I put her bag down and left.
  • O.- What did she look like at that -
  • W.- Well, she was a nice looking elderly lady, rather stout. And she was quite a character as everybody knows.
  • O.- Did you hear her lecture? W.- Yes.
  • O.- How did it go?
  • W.- Well, it was a temperance lecture, of course. And we had a good many temperance people in town. As you know where our bank
  • was located over on Pearl Street, is the Temperance building. O.- Yes. W.- It was built by the temperance people. And there was some very active temperance people here.
  • O.- Do you remember what year it was she was here?
  • W.- No, I, I don't remember.
  • O.- But it was after the boom had started?
  • W.- Yes, it was after the boom had started.
  • O.- Yes. Can you remember any difficulties that the sheriff got into during the boom times with the people who wouldn't obey the law?
  • W.- No, I don't. I think it was Mr. Tom Langham who was the sheriff. He was a very fine man. He was a man that everybody had a lot of respect for, because when he said something he meant it.
  • O.- Yes. Do you remember how many deputies he had working for him?
  • W.- No, I don't. Of course, they were increased as the thing got bigger. But I just don't recall that.
  • O.- Did you have a city police force when the boom came?
  • W.- I think we did. I think, I believe that old man Doc Tevis (?) was the chief of police. O.- Yes. W.- I'm not quite sure but he was very active and he was quite a character himself.
  • O.- You think they had their hands full all right?
  • W.- Oh, yes, there's no doubt about that.
  • O.- How much of prostitution started after the boom, do you think?
  • W.- Well, of course it increased. But it existed here prior to the boom. The district at that time was located where a colored church is on Forsyth Street, between Park and Neches. O.- Yes. W.- And there were a few houses in there.
  • O.- Open red light?
  • W.- Yes, there were, we all knew they were. Some of the women used to come to town. And they'd dress pretty flashy. Then there would be times when they were not permitted to come on the street. The church people raised a lot of Cain, they wouldn't go. But when everybody knew who they were.
  • O.- Yes. And then as soon as the boom started, others came in?
  • W.- Other came in and then it moved over on, what we know now as Deep Crockett.
  • O.- Yes. And then there was plenty of trouble, I suppose?
  • W.- Well, yes there were, but there was lots of fun down there. It wasn't as bad as many places I've been to. O.- Yes. W.- There were a number of houses over there, they tried to run them in an orderly fashion.
  • O.- Did they have saloons in connection with them over there or not?
  • W.- No, but they served beer a dollar a bottle. And they had the piano,-
  • O.- A fare piano?
  • W.- A fare piano, twenty-five cents.
  • O.- Yes. And any gambling over there?
  • W.- Well, no, this was pretty well kept separate from the, from the-, there was gambling in--I suppose you've heard the story about how Mr. George Carroll went in to one of the gambling places right down on Pearl Street.
  • O.- I don't think I know the story. How does it go?
  • W.- Well, I'm not really the one to tell it, I don't suppose. But Mr. Carroll was quite a prohibitionist. I think he put on a mustache or disguised himself and went up into this place which I believe was located, I won't say exactly. But it was located somewhere near the corner of Pearl and Crockett street. At that time where the thermometer thing that the gas company had, that was the station. O.- Oh, yes, W.- The Southern Pacific station was located right there, first station.
  • O.- Yes. Well, he went in in disguise and what---
  • W.- Oh, yes, well he did lots of things like that. He was quite a, somebody else probably could tell you more about that -
  • O.- All right, I'll -
  • W.- -than I do. But he ran for President of the United States once I think on the Prohibition ticket.
  • O.- I didn't know that.
  • W.- Yes. He gave lots of money to Baylor, and he was a brother of Mrs. Keith.
  • O.- Yes. Well, how much support did he get here as candidate for President of the University, of the United States on ---
  • W.- Well, I don't think not as much as he would have liked to have had. O.- Yes. W.- Of course, there were mostly Democrats here then and very few Republicans.
  • O.- You've always had a French population here, have you not?
  • W.- Well, not to a great extent. As I recall, the only French family that I knew was the De Villaneuve (?) family, which came here from France. And I studied French and a number of other Beaumont people did from this Madame De Villaneuve. She came from some very fine family in France. And they often said that they had left France, were a part of the lesser nobility. They owned some property down on what is now Irving Street, I believe. And I used to go there with my sister and with some of the other children certain days in the week and take French lessons.
  • O.- Yes. Well, at what point did the Cajun influx come?
  • W.- Well, I think that was in later years and more after Port Arthur was established, O.- Yes. - and many came.
  • O.- Well, did many come during the boom?
  • W.- Well, I don't recall that an awful lot of them did. However, it's possible but I didn't, I don't recall that they did. I think that that is a thing that developed as automobiles developed and we had highways. And the refineries were built and they came. And then the rice industry was, well it grew, you see. And I think that's what brought them in here.
  • O.- Well, how do you account for the fact that there was so many Negroes here with French names?
  • W.- Well, I don't know that. I don't know that they, I never had thought of that. It is true.
  • O.- But it is true. And I just thought maybe you might have an answer for it, whether they came at the time of the boom or after the boom, or whether you'd know of it.
  • W.- Well, what I said while ago was, I thought mostly of the white people. But the same thing, I think, would apply to the colored people too, because many of them came here, or lots of them came here as servants and were in the families. And they were and still are excellent cooks. O.- Yes. W.- And they have that French touch that it's pretty good. Their gumbos and their cornbread and things like that they, they were in those days and they still are in demand.
  • O.- Yes. Crayfish bisque?
  • W.- Well, we didn't have so much of that. That's a Louisiana product, I think. But we did, as children we caught lots of crawfish in the ditches and things. We used to boil them in tin cans and then sometimes we'd eat the tails just as they were. And sometimes we'd fry them. O.- Yes. W.- It was a lot of fun.
  • O.- Well, I just wondered if there were not enough French Catholics then here to make a difference in the balance of public opinion, do you think?
  • W.- No, I don't. I don't think so.
  • O.- Well, now your first hospital here was the Hotel Dieu, I understand.
  • W.- Yes, it was the Hotel Dieu. And we had a very great need for a hospital. And I think there was some sisters that came over from Galveston, with some of the doctors here and they started out. The Hotel Dieu was an --- O.- Yes. W.- -old wooden building. And it was built down there where the old Holtz home used to be. Some of the Holtz family still live in Beaumont.
  • O.- Yes. Was it sufficient to take care of the needs during the boom?
  • W.- Well, it was pretty crowded. To get to it you had to drive right in front of the Holtz home. And it was located where the colored ward is now. The Holtz home was where the new part of the hospital is. Of course, the other has been rebuilt too. There was a walk along the riverbank from there on down to the Greer place. And we used to go down there to go in swimming. And many of the old baptizings, the colored people had baptizings down there and that's where they baptized the new members.
  • O.- That was the Baptist Church then?
  • W.- Yes, colored Baptist Church.
  • O.- Yes. Did you get to know any of these people who were engaged in oil very well? Did you get to know the Sharps, for instance?
  • W.- Oh, yes, I still know the Sharps. I was young and they were
  • not intimate friends of mine, and they're not intimate friends now. But I do, if I see them in Houston I know them, and they are, they're acquaintances.
  • O.- Yes. Do you know any particular stories about either Walter or Jim, while they were operating in Beaumont?
  • W.- No, I don't. I don't recall that, just that I know they were always highly regarded and people thought a lot of them. O.- Yes. W.- But as I say, I was younger and I do not.
  • O.- Yes. Well, what about Jim Hogg stories. Did you ---
  • W.- No, I don't know those. I know Miss Ima Hogg quite well and think she's one of the loveliest people that I know or have ever known.
  • O.- Yes, I agree with you.
  • W.- But I do not know nor did I ever know very well any other members of the family. I have had the honor and pleasure of meeting Miss Ima and being in her home --- O.- Yes. W.- ---and I do think that she is a wonderful woman and one of the loveliest people that I've ever known. I think that is generally the thought of Houston people.
  • O.- Yes, I think everyone will agree with you on that.
  • W.- Everyone, yes, that's right.
  • O.- Well, of course Governor Hogg was operating here in oil for a time and I thought perhaps you might have known ---
  • W. - No, I did not.
  • O.- ----some of his stories.
  • W.- I mean there was so many people here and there was so much going on that I'm not familiar and I did not ever have any contact with Governor Hogg. I do know though that my father had a great deal of respect - O.- Yes. W.- -and thought that Governor Hogg was a great man, which I'm sure he was. But I don't know myself.
  • O. - Yes. Was the boom over before you started working in the bank?
  • W.- Well, it was practically over. It was still existing but it was just about over. I went to work in the bank, I believe, in 1903, '2 or '3. O.- Yes. W.- And, 1902. O.- Yes. W.- And it was, it had calmed down.
  • O.- Yes. What were some of the problems that the bank had during the boom?
  • W.- Well, of course as I say, I was just a lad then and I went in as a runner. And the American National Bank at that time was located over on Crockett Street, between North Main and North Pearl. And Mr. Norvell (?) was president, Mr. Streck (?) was cashier. I know we worked awful hard. We used to go to work at seven o'clock in the morning. And sometimes be one or two at night in the last of the month when we balanced the books, you see. Everybody brought their book in and you balanced and had to post the books and bring them up to date.
  • O.- Yes. Real bankers hours those, weren't they?
  • W.- Yes, those were ours, yes.
  • O.- Well, how much of the transaction was in silver in those days?
  • W.- Well, there was a good deal of silver in circulation. And by that time, of course, the mill checks had faded away. O.- Yes. W.- And
  • O.- You had regular currency? W.- Had regular currency.
  • O.- What was the biggest cash transaction that you knew about in the days of trading. Did you hear of any of the big ones?
  • W.- No. I, I heard of them but I don't recall the amount.
  • O.- Exact amounts?
  • W.- Exact amounts. I know there were lots of stories that went around. But I don't, I do not recall.
  • O.- Did the bankers keep their heads pretty well during the boom? W.- Yes. O.- Or did they, they didn't get involved in the --
  • W. - No, they did not. We had some very fine men in the, heads of the banks and --- O.- Yes.
  • W.- There was a little trouble in our bank before Mr. Norvell took it over. And the man who organized the bank got into trouble. But Mr. Norvell and some other fine Beaumont people took it over. The man was later tried and I believe he served a sentence but I'm just not sure about that. I don't even recall his name for
  • the moment. O.- Yes. W.- But Mr. Norvell was a very, and the men associated with him were very conservative fine men. The First National Bank had old Colonel Davidson and Mr. Alvey (?). And then the Beaumont National Bank opened up and it had Mr. Dennis Cole, who was a lumberman, who came in here. He was also, they were all very fine, conservative people.
  • O.- How long did it take for the boom really to pass?
  • W.- Well, I just couldn't say how long it took because it, being a part of a thing like that you just don't know. It came very suddenly and it of course grew and grew and then it began to diminish gradually. And I just don't know.
  • O.- Well, could you personally tell any difference in the behavior of the people in Beaumont after the boom?
  • W.- Well -
  • O.- What were the marked changes, or were there any in the town?
  • W.- Well, course everybody was trying to get in on what they make, make a killing. O.- Yes. W.- But I don't recall that it -
  • O.- Do you think it really became a wealthy town suddenly?
  • W.- Well, no, not exactly. Because there was a certain amount of what was considered wealth in those days that was here already.
  • O.- Yes. But there was some new wealth?
  • W.- Oh, of course there was much new wealth, and many people lost an awful lot of money. But those people, I'll be frank, we didn't
  • consider them so much, they were newcomers.
  • O.- Yes. How much conflict was there between the old timers and the newcomers during that period?
  • W.- There was not a tremendous amount of conflict as I recall. I think the people, everybody worked together.
  • O.- I have heard the accusation that Beaumont tried to charge too much to the people who came in. Do you believe that or not?
  • W.- Well, that was true to a certain extent. I think you'll find that anyplace that you go. If people feel that they can get money, more, and I have seen this. I don't know whether you know it or not, I travel quite a bit. And I've made three trips around the world since 1950, since 1950. And I notice in all these foreign countries, if some of these cracked up things that these people, that our officials been sending in there, they wanted to buy a piece of property, the people put big prices on it. Well, the only difference was here it was individuals and they probably would not pay it. But over there they just write a check for it and upset the whole economy of the country. O.- Yes. W.- Now here I do know it's said that Mr. Cullinan, I believe, wanted to buy a piece of property out on Calder Avenue. And he was charged, they asked a big price for it. Well, if he had bought it and paid for it, or paid that price for it, then it would have been a darn good investment started because that property is much more valuable now. O.- Yes. W.- And what he considered an amount of money, it's nothing now.
  • He didn't like it and felt that they were taking advantage of him. But I don't think that was the thing as a whole. He wanted to buy this home out there on Calder Avenue which was the home of the people in the upper drawers (?). O.- Yes.W.- And I think that he did. But I don't think that was---
  • O.- Well, the story goes around that that is why the oil people moved to Houston.
  • W.- Well, they say that but then Houston was a larger town. It had better railroad facilities and you know how companies go to it. I don't think that was altogether the thing. Because later, the Gulf stayed here for many years and then later it moved its office to Houston. So Mr., I believe it was Mr. Cullinan who tried to buy that place. He may have been angry and that may have been the start of it. But I do know'that the Gulf stayed here right on this corner, right across the street a number of years later. And then it found out that Houston was a bigger city, it was easier to get clerical help. O.- Yes.W.- It was a bigger railroad center. There were many things that hadn't yet moved to Houston.
  • O.- Yes. Well, do you think that the local people took advantage of the laboring people who came in here hunting jobs?
  • W.- Well, there's no doubt but what labor, the colored and white was exploited in this part of the country for many years. And we are suffering from that now. O.- Yes.
  • W.- It's a well known fact that these Negroes worked for a dollar a day or seventy five cents a day in these sawmills and they worked from six o'clock in the morning till six o'clock in the evening. They took their lunches with them and had a short time at noon. They worked hard or they lost their jobs. Well, the same thing about - I don't believe that they took advantage of them anymore than was done all over the country.
  • O.- Yes. Of course, many of them came here from the farms just at the time of famine in the fields.
  • W.- Well, when they did that, of course you know that's human nature. If you can get things done cheaper, why it means more money in your pocket. O.- Yes.W.- And many people take that advantage, but I don't think that that's something that you could say the people of Beaumont were any different from the people in any other place.
  • O.- Yes. Or that it happened particularly during the oil boom.W.- Or during the boom. I mean that existed before the boom and after the boom.
  • O.- Yes. I agree with you.
  • W.- And still exists wherever they can do it.
  • O.- But that criticism I sometimes get of Beaumont.
  • W.- Well, I don't believe it's justifiable. O.- Yes.W.- It may have been, but I don't think so.
  • O.- Did you do any work in the other fields? Sour Lake, Saratoga, Batson, over there you had nothing, no connections with it?
  • W.- I had no connections with it. I went over there sometimes on visits with friends and things of that. Other than that, I had no connection with it.
  • O.- You haven't much judgment on a comparison between those and Beaumont?
  • W.- No, I don't. I think the one here, as I say Beaumont was a larger town, and the times that I went over there it seemed to me like that they were even in worse shape than we were at the worst time.
  • O.- Yes. Had fewer facilities ---
  • W.- Yes, that's right, had fewer facilities. They were not on any railroad like we were from, that went from New Orleans to California.
  • O.- Yes. Do you believe that there was more lawlessness in those areas, or do you have any judgment on that?
  • W.- I expect there was but I, I really --- O.- Yes. W.- ---don't know.
  • O.- At what time did they start building, putting in paved streets, and so on, building Beaumont into the city it is now?
  • W.- Well, it wasn't long after the boom they started trying to because we were in terrible shape. And they started trying to get It and naturally there was more money came into the town. It wasn't too long after that, that we got a streetcar system put in, an electric car system. O.- Yes.W.- And then some of the streets. We had a very good council
  • and they tried to do the things the best they could. Sometimes they tried out brick paving. Then they tried out some of these wooden block paving. Sometimes we had a flood and the block, the wooden blocks bulged up and floated away. And, and the brick wore down and they, they were trying to do their best to--- O.- Yes. W.- ---to better the conditions. Everybody seemed to pull together.
  • O.- You think that Beaumont has been civic-minded right along?
  • W.- Yes, I do. I'm very proud of Beaumont. It hasn't grown as much as some of the other cities have. But I think we have a wonderful town. Many of my friends are friends of fifty and even sixty years. And while I don't think we have the best climate in the world and I do think it's just one of the nicest places that I've ever lived. I just can't think of another place that I had rather live in. And I have spent time and visited many others. I lived in France for two years and Switzerland for a year and a half as I believe I said. And I'm ---
  • O.- Well, you have some basis for comparison all right.
  • W.- To me, our winters especially are very, very nice. Our summers are hot.
  • O.- How many of the people who came with the boom actually decided that this was the place they wanted to live?
  • W.- Well, that would be hard for me to say. When they began to move to Houston, many of those people moved. But many of our good, substantial citizens are people who came here shortly after the boom started.
  • O.- In connection with oil? W.- Yes. In connection with oil, and definitely as a result of the boom.
  • O.- Well, we've come to the end of an hour's discussion.
  • W.- Is that right? Well, I had no idea it was so long.
  • O.- And thank you very much, sir.
  • W.- Well you're quite welcome. I hope I've added some little something to it.
  • O.- You certainly have.