W. C. Gilbert Interview - W. C. Gilbert Interview [part 6 of 7]

TOPIC: Spindletop, Sour Lake, Big Thicket Areas NAME: Gilbert, W. C. INTERVIEWER: Owens, W. A. PLACE: Beaumont, Texas TAPE NO. 116 DATE: 7-22-53 RESTRICTIONS: None Gilbert- Well, the next morning these Germans came back in my office and still offered me the $25,000 and I told them that I had leased the land.

And they said, "Well, who to?"

And I told 'em the Gulf Company, and they said, "How much did you get?"

And I said $25,000.

So one of these smaller Germans said to the big one, and I remember his name; his name was Winkeback.

Says, "Wineback, why don't you tell Mr. Gilbert about what happened up there?"

Well, he says, "I guess I just as well, it's gone.

You know, we were working for the Gulf Company and you know, early in the morning up in that thicket and all there's a lot of heavy dew on the brush, and I decided that morning we wouldn't get wet.

So I just went out on the Pure Oil pipeline and set up these torsion balances.

And we were sitting right on top of it.

Then we detailed it, and we, 'course, turned in all our work.

About six months ago, why, they fired all of us, and we got to checking back on these prospects that we had found, and we found three of 'em that the Gulf Company hadn't exercised on.

This was one of 'em.

Now, Mr. Gilbert, we've got two of 'em left; how?

about getting you in as a partner and give us a little more capital, and we'll go get the other two?"

And I said, "No, I don't believe I'd be interested in it."

And so after this lease was a year old, why, the Gulf Company offered me a $15,000 renewal of this lease, in lieu of the regular payment of $25,000.

And I said, "No, you've got the lease there; it's $25,000 rental, or drill me a well.

Now you can do either one of those or give it back to me."

And they said, "All right, we'll just drill you a well and probably nine times out of ten, it'll be dry."

And my good friend Jack Frazier drilled that well for 'em, and it went dry.

Owens - You were going to tell me the story about a well that Mr. Kelly drilled at Bear Springs.

G.- Well, I'll tell you.

In this country, and in the early days when automobiles came in, of course, the roads were very bad.

But we were certainly sold on Henry Ford's product and other makers and we used automobiles quite a bit to get over the country and all.

It was really something to drive from here to Houston in a day.

I did most of the driving for my father, and they'd be somebody in here all the time telling us about oil indications.

So we'd just take off any day and go look at these oil indications.

And so one day my father said, "Well, Mr. Kelly who runs a store up at Votaw is getting ready to drill a well at Bear Springs."

That was a spring right south of Votaw in an old oil prospect.

So Father and I drove up to Votaw to Mr. Kelly's store and we talked with him there awhile.

And Mr. Kelly says, "Mr. Gilbert, how? about taking $1,000 stock in my well?"

Father says, "Well, I'll take it, but I want you to put it in the name of Mrs. John N. Gilbert.

Now you just send the stock down to me, and I'll send you a check for it." -- which he did.

And so this well was drilling and Father and I drove down to the well south of Votaw and quite a few country people were sitting around there and looking at the well, and watching it drill.

The ditch, of course, like all of 'em, run right around the derrick back to the slush pit.

And everybody was there horseback or buggy, just sitting around looking.

It was quite a curiosity to see a rig running.

So all of a sudden, why, my father punched me and said, "Look there in the ditch.

Don't you see that oil?"

And I said yeah.

And in a few minutes there wasn't anybody at the well but us.

All these country people got excited and I imagine went hack and scattered the news.

And so I went up on the derrick floor and talked to the driller.

And he said, "Well, Mr. Gilbert, that wasn't a real show; that's dead oil, oil we got around here to grease the machinery with.

But I just wanted to have a little fun with all my country neighbors.

Now they'll all swear we had it, and we had capped the well to buy up all the land."

But the well went down to about 1,500 feet, and was a dry hole.

O.- Were there actually cappings of producing wells there?

G.- No, you've heard that for years but -- and you even hear it down to this day.

But I don't- believe that it's really done?

because the people spending this money are just as anxious to get it as you are as a landowner.

And I've heard this for years but I don't believe there is any truth in it.

In fact, I've never seen anything that proved up later, that I could swear to that they had capped it.

Now there's been lots of wells drilled that were, went through oil sands, but I believe that the, it was honestly overlooked.

O.- Now could you tell me the story about Mr. Robichaux?

G.- Yes, Mr. Owens, Mr. Robichaux was a farmer around here, rice farmer, and a good mechanic.

He was always trying to invent something, especially in the oil drilling equipment way.

He had an old tractor the last time I saw him in the field, and he had it rigged up with a small rotary, and he was drilling a well 1,000 or 1,200 feet deep with this little contraption.

One day he came up here to my office, and says, "Well, I've made a wonderful thing for the oil business.

Instead of pulling out all the drill pipe, change your bits -- why I've rigged up a cable and a core barrel; it'll work with a steam engine on the drilling rig floor with a big drum.

If you've got a well 10,000 feet deep and you want to core it, why, all you have to do is put your core barrel on and drop it down In your drill stem, and have a hole in your bit.

This will go through the bit and then self-lock.

Then you go ahead and drill if you've taken an eight or ten or twelve-foot core, or any length that you desire.

And when you drill to that depth -- why, then you'd give this wire line a sudden jerk from the derrick floor, and that would release the pin that was holding it down in the bit.

In about five minutes you'd have that up on the derrick floor, open it up, take a look at the sands, or whatever you wanted to look at that was in the core barrel."

I saw the first one that he constructed and had operating.

It was on the Shell Oil Company's well north of Hampshire, right south of Gilbert Ranch there.

And I went down there one afternoon to take a look at it, as he'd offered me a half interest in the core barrel for $7,500.

I stood around there quite awhile, talked to the driller and the gang pusher on the rig, asking them about this core barrel and how the recovery was on it and how it worked.

They went on to explain at times you'd get a small piece of core and lots of times you'd get nothing.

And they rather discouraged me, so I came on back and the next day Mr. Robichaux came in and asked me what I thought about it, and I told him what they said out there.

And then I told him I wouldn't be interested in it.

So he went along and made a few more and he had a meter on these steam rigs that he put on the derrick floor, and every time you ran the thing it'd register and he'd charge you $35 for every core.

It would register on this meter, how many times you'd use it.

He then went over and got the Reed Roller Bit Company interested in this core barrel.

They bought the core barrel for him and let him retain a royalty.

This core barrel is used extensively yet.

Practically any drilling rig that you go on in this part of the country -- why, you'll see the old Robichaux barrel there and it's working.

It made the Reed Company quite a fortune, and also to Mr. Robichaux, who is now dead.

O.- That's an interesting story all right.

Yesterday you mentioned that you knew the Haywood boys when they arrived in Beaumont.

Would you tell me something about them?

G.- Yes. The Haywood brothers were a vaudeville troop.

I think there were three of 'em.

I remember the names of two of 'em, Alva and Dewey Haywood.

And about the time the Lucas gusher came in -- why, they were here playing at the old Kyle Opera House which at that time was the largest theater in the state and had the largest stage.

They got enthused over oil, and they decided they'd just quit this vaudeville act, and stay in Beaumont and get in the oil business.

They, of course, had a few dollars they'd saved up, and they went out to Spindletop and secured some leases out there and went to drilling, and were rather successful.

In later years, why, they moved over into Louisiana, and were very successful over there.

The last of the Haywood brothers died several years ago, but they were certainly an interesting bunch and did very well here.

O.- Did you see their vaudeville act when they were playing here by any chance?

G.- I think I did, but I don't remember it.

O.- Yes sir. Did they enter into the community affairs afterwards?

G.- Oh, yeah, they were very prominent here in all the community affairs, and they were very sociable and likeable people.

O.- Were you too young to go down to the Oaks Hotel when that was flourishing?

G. - Well, yes, but my father in later years built a nice home right across from where the old Oaks Hotel, used to stand.

It was burned during a big fire, and it was a three-story structure.

You'd probably call it now an apartment house.

O.- Yes sir, well, did he entertain a great number of the oil men there?

G.- Yes, he did.

They were very sociable people and liked company.

And in fact, everybody else liked 'em, and they had rather a flash to 'em.

They were quite dressy and very affable people.

O.- All right, you mentioned that you had some difficulty over title to lands in the Sour Lake area.

Could you tell me about that?

G.- Yes, Mr. Owens. Back there when they struck oil over at Sour Lake - why, some people in Houston sued my father and his family for the, for a tract of land that my grandfather had purchased there and left to them years before. We had a rather hard time with this lawsuit on account of the courthouse burning and all the records were gone.

(INTERRUPTION)

I was telling you about this tract of land at Sour Lake of my grandfather's, and the courthouse burning and losing the records there.

We had this lawsuit and the field was on a boom, and my father figured he'd better compromise that -- he won the suit, but they had appealed it, and so he compromised with these people and gave 'em part of that land.

At the time he gave it to 'em, it didn't look good.

They held on to it, but my father went on and developed his family's track there, and did very well with it.

And in later years, why the balance of htis track was developed with deeper drilling, and it proved out very good.

And I often think of my grandmother Gilbert; she died about a year before Sour Lake came in, and she told me that when I finished my schooling and got a job and saved my money -- why, we'd go there and drill on our land and make us both rich, and we'd just travel and see the world.

Her faith and confidence in that tract of land certainly came to pass, but she was gone, And I have lots of sentiment about that tract of land;

In fact, if it never produces another barrel of oil, as long as I'm living -- why, I'll be setting on it.

O.- Did you stay any at the Sour Lake Hotel when it was operating over there?

G.- No, but my grandmother often stayed there and used to tell me about it.

It was a two-story hotel there, kind of a resort hotel.

And the mineral waters there in the old lake and the mud around there was used for rheumatism and exema and other things, and they used to give you mud baths and all there.

It really helped a lot of people because there was a lot of sulfur in the water and in the mud.

My grandmother often told me about 'em going down to the edge of the lake, and they'd take a shovel or two and cut out blocks of dirt and bring it up and put it on benches in front of the hotel at night.

They had several croquet sets out there, and that was the day before electricity, of course.

And they'd set these blocks of dirt on fire, and that way it'd illuminate the yard, so they could play croquet out there.

O.- Is that right? Well, oil in the ---?

G.- Oil in the mud and dirt.

Yes, it was very apparent.

And I know that's one of the indications that probably my grandfather saw there when he bought this tract of land.

O.- Do you know anything about Walter Sharp's refinery at Sour Lake?

The one that was there around 1897 or '98?

G.- No, I really don't, but I want to say right here about the Sharp brothers that they were just up and coming young fellows and very successful and really worked hard.

Right at this time I want to thank Mrs. Walter Sharp for giving her time and her money to have all these records preserved for future generations.

I want to say to the young people, or whoever will probably be listening, that these stories and records in days to come - that the main thing you've got to have is faith in God, and to go ahead and be energetic, and like the work that you're in and probably you'll succeed.

O.- There's one more story about Sour Lake. It had to do with Mr. Moore there, I believe.

G.- Yeah, that was quite a story. There was a man named Moore over at Sour Lake, and he was a driller and very energetic.

He got a fifteen-acre lease over there from Mrs. Jackson,

and he wanted to organize a company with $5,000 capital paid in.

So he capitalized his little company, the Lake Oil Company, which I am president of now, for $10,000.

He got Mr. Bordash and Mr. Gettyman here in Beaumont, and Mr. Charley Gordon and Mr. Kever from Ohio, an old friend of his, to put in $1,000 apiece.

Then he got $1,000 interest for getting the lease and was going to look after the drilling and production and other things pertaining to the lease.

They went in and drilled their first well, got about a 1,500- barrel well, about 1,600 feet.

Then went right ahead and never put another nickel in this business.

They went right ahead and developed that fifteen acres, and each one of these people recieved over half a million dollars in cash each.

That little company is still operating and it is still making money.

O.- What's the highest amount you've ever known made on a small amount of money?

You've mentioned that one; you've mentioned that acre out at Spindletop.

Do you know of another story where a person made ever greater returns on his investment?

G.- Well, of course, I've seen men start with nothing in the oil business and develop great fortunes, but not on any little certain tract of land.

They played quite a few different places after they got started, and accumulated a big fortune.

In fact, that would go back to practically every old-timer that was successful in the oil business.

And if you started in to name those -- why, I'd be speaking to you probably for several days.

O.- Well, let's leave the oil for a little while and go back to the steamboating days here at Beaumont.

G.- Well, in the early days, the only transportation here was by boat.

'Course, we was situated here on the Neches River and that empties into Sabine Lake, and then the lake had a pass at Sabine Pass for going into the Gulf.

'Course this was only for shallow draft vessels drawing probably around four and a half or five foot of water.

And all the lumber and commerce coming in and out of Beaumont and even way up into East Texas, as far as Cass County, was all done by small steamers and sailboats.

'Course, the sail- boat came first.

And the principal city in Texas, and of course, the only real port was Galveston; it was the banking and commercial center for the whole Southwest.

In fact, in Beaumont here -- why, we were without a bank, and finally my father and two or three of his friends organized the First National Bank in here; that was sixty-four years ago.

And that was the first bank in Beaumont, and it's still here operating, and I am the oldest director in the line of service or anyone working in the bank.

I went in there forty-three years ago.

You can still go up the Sabine and Neches Rivers and see the old docks, part of 'em, scattered along those rivers where the commerce operated in the early days.

Now I know up in Sabine County, and as far as Cass -- why, all the farm crops, especially cotton and all was shipped to Galveston by boat.

Then all the merchandise was hauled back in there by boat.

Same thing was true of Orange, Lake Charles, and Beaumont, and the towns farther up.

'Course, in that time there wasn't any Port Arthur.

I remember several old steamers and later the steamers came along that plied the Neches here, and I remember one of them was named the "Laura" and she sunk right at the foot of Pearl Street here.

Probably the old hull is still lying there on the bottom of the river.

I remember there was a man lived on Calder; his name was Rogers; they called him Captain Rogers, and he was the captain of the "Laura."

O.- Who owned her?

G.- I think he owned her.

O.- Do you remember the names of any of the others?

G.- No, I really don't.

O.- Did you have any pleasure boats?

G.- Yeah, we had quite a few pleasure boats here, and there was lot of rivalry among all the owners as to speed and looks.

I remember very vividly a race here on the river between my father's steamboat called the "Gypsy," a sixty-footer, and Mr. Blankenstein had brought in a very pretty mahogany gasoline boat, about forty or fifty foot in length.

And 'course, they were both looking for one another to have a race.

So my father every afternoon would take a boat ride down the river.

Generally I went along and was part of the time the pilot.

He kept a full-time engineer, Mr. Charley McKinley, and she was a real coal burner.

That afternoon there was a fellow named Jim Garvin on a boat piloting it, and he was an old-time pilot here, and my father often used him.

He was along piloting the boat and all of a sudden -- why, Captain Garvin said, "Mr. Gilbert, there's that Blankenstein boat. How about a race?"

Well, he says, "Boys, get up plenty of steam there and run along- side of him and we'll give him a race, and if you can outrun him, I'll give you both a good Stetson hat."

So they were very anxious, he and Mr. McKinley, for this race.

And 'course, Mr. Garvin knew the river perfectly.

Mr. Blankenstein, he had a pilot and engineer, and so the race started out in good shape.

We were outrunning the boat, and when we passed 'em -- why, they looked like they was having engine trouble, and Mr, Garvin and Mr. McKinley says, "Oh, that's just a gag.

There's nothing wrong with it. It's hitting just as good as it ever was, but it can't keep up with this one."

Those boats then had a speed of about fifteen or sixteen miles an hour, with the safety valve popping off.

O.- About what year was that, do you suppose?

G.- Well, I'd say that was along in about 1904 or '05.

O.- During the boom period?

G.- Yeah?

The Big Thicket occupied quite an area in East Texas, and runs through Hardin, and Liberty and Tyler Counties.

It's quite a big hunting preserve, and there's a lot of fine timber in it, but it's very thick with undergrowth and, of course, a wonderful habitat for wild game.

There's a lot of different species of flowers, even down to orchids, wild orchids.

You can find quite a few species of it.

At different times we've invited a lot of prominent people down here to hunt.

It used to be full of deer and bear and all kinds of squirrel and fox and quail.

With out modern roads though now, and trucks and all, where we used to have to go in there and occasionally at dry times and log timber -- why, you'll see 'em driving big eight-wheel trucks right through the Big Thicket, just loaded down with anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 foot of logs on a truck.

O.- Yeah, well, didn't a great number of the roughnecks come out of the Big Thicket?

G.- Oh, yes, they came from everywhere, anywhere around this neighborhood, and then, of course, people came in from other states looking for work.

The roughnecks and drilling crews are still quite a crowd of men.

I've known any number of 'em, and I don't believe you'd meet a finer bunch of men.

In fact, there is hardly a drilling rig even now that I walk up on that I don't know some roughneck working on it.

O.- Do you know the people in the Big Thicket pretty well?

G.- Yes, because we own part of it, and I knew 'em quite well.

In fact, lots of 'em worked in our mill at Nona, in Hardin County, and the Beaumont Lumber Company Mill down here at the foot of Pearl Street.

Then we took a lot of 'em to our operation in 1898 in Leesville, Louisiana, and Camp Polk there is situated on some of my company's land.

O.- Well, could you describe some of the people?

What makes the Big Thicket people different from other people, or are they different?

G.- Well, they are; they are very much self-reliant people because they have learned a lot by themselves, and on their own efforts.

They had, of course, all the meat and all the vegetables; the land is very fertile, and of course, it was full of game.

Then there's thousands of wild hogs in there and quite a few cattle.

O.- Those are the razorback hogs?

G.- Razorback hogs and they're still here.

O.- How did they get in there?

G.- Well, they just-- probably somebody turned a few tame hogs loose, and they just went wild.

In fact, there's been a lot of stories connected with the razorback hogs and all, but I can still eat 'em and enjoy 'em.

It's certainly good bacon and ham.

O.- Do you know -- could you tell me some of these stories about the razorbacks?

G. - Well, I was just trying to think of some of them.

Now a lot of people tell you they damage timber greatly on account of their backs being so sharp and rubbing up against the tree that they cut some of 'em down.

Well, that's going a long ways.

O.- Sounds like another tall tale to me.

G.- Yeah, and then they'll tell you, and they do 'course, eat and root up a lot of the small trees to eat the nuts on the little pine seedlings.

But of course, a lot of people say it does a great damage, but we've been timber growers here since 1877, and we're still growing it, and we're right in the heart of this hog country.

And I imagine we grow as much timber to the acre as people that plant it and attend to it, and we never have to plant ours.

We never cut it down below ten or twelve inches in diameter, fifteen inches above ground, and leave plenty of seed trees, and that's all you need to grow this pine timber.

O.- Did you ever go hunting razorbacks?

G.- Oh, yeah

O.- Is it a good sport?

G.- One of the best in the world.

You've got to have you two or three fine hog dogs, and well trained.

Then you're horseback with a rifle, and 'course, you've got a wagon and a team following you to pick up these hogs.

The minute these dogs get to trailing a bunch of hogs, they'll get up close to 'em and get to barking, and then the hogs will all get in a bunch.

We call it rallying 'em.

They'll all get in a bunch and fighting these dogs, and you're sitting up there on your horse, and you can pick out whatever you want to shoot that's fat.

You just go ahead and shoot 'em, call your dogs off, and the rest of the hogs go on.

Then you -- your wagon comes up and you load 'em on to your wagon and take 'em in to the ranch house and scald 'em and clean 'em up and put 'em up in ham, bacon and lard.

O.- Yeah, that's the way a great number of people live.

G.- Oh, yeah

O.- Are any of those boars vicious?

G.- Oh, yes, they're quite wild; they -- if you jam 'em up -- why, they could bite your hand or your arm off.

In fact, you can get in a lot of trouble with 'em.

You've got to be careful about that.

Lots of times they kill your dogs.

Some of 'em got long tusks, you know, and they can just split a dog half in two.

You can get in a great amount of trouble monkeying with these hogs.

They're all earmarked now, known by different people.

If you'd happen to shoot one of these hogs or steal one of 'em -- why, it'd be might near as bad as killing a human being.

Same way, same thing with the cows.

O.- Hog rustling, isn't it?

G.- Yeah

O.- Was any of that going on, you think?

G.- Yes sir, and it's still going on

O. - Do you know any stories of that?

G.- In fact, Mr. Owens, I wish you would get with a, our cattle inspector here before you leave and he covers about five counties here.

He can certainly tell you some good rustling stories on hogs and cattle.

He writes a lot of these experiences into these detective magazines and all, and he's a very interesting man to meet.

O.- What are some of the -- what do they call the brands when they mark hogs?

G.- Well, they're mostly earmarks.

Then that's what they are; they just mark 'em.

They've got different slits in the ear and all.

Call 'em upper and over, and under-bits -- and oh, crop in the right ear and swallow fork -- and oh, they've just got thousands of 'em.

O.- They're all variations on cutting the ears.

G.- Yes sir

O.- Were you in the Big Thicket any during the prohibition days?

G.- Yes sir, and we had quite a few stills operating up there, and in fact, a lot of people were scared to go back in the woods at practically any place around this part of the country because that's where all the stills were concealed and operated.

In fact, I was up on the Sabine River during prohibition and I knew a very fine old gentleman there that ran the ferry out of Burtville there going into Leesville and Natchitoches, Louisiana, named Lannahan.

I went up to spend the night and look at oil indications up and down the river there.

And I was talking to Mr. Lannahan about walking out on the river and looking at the banks to see if I could see any indications.

And he said, "Well, I don't want you going out there by yourself.

I'll go with you, or you'll get killed."

And I said, "Well, what's the trouble?"

Well, he said, "They've all got their mash vats out there, and they're mixing their mash, and if they see a stranger they'll figure you're a revenue officer, and that's the end.

But if you're out there with me, they'll know it's all right."

O.- What are the names of some of the little settlements out in the Thicket?

G.- Well, they've got one main Thicket; that's up here in Hardin County, and it's quite a little settlement.

Then there's Votaw a little further north; it's a little sawmill town.

Then you can keep on following through there, and there's little settlements scattered all through there, none of 'em very prominent and lot of 'em forgotten and abandoned.

I remember one of 'em right in the heart there of the Big Thicket, was where two lumbermen started a small mill there; afterwards moved into Alexandria, Louisiana, and that was Bentley and Zimmerman.

They moved into Alexandria, Louisiana, after making a little money up there in the Big Thicket, and stayed in the lumber business until their death.

Both of 'em accumulated quite a large fortune.

In fact, their old companies are among the last three still cutting long leaf yellow pine timber right now.

You can go into Alexandria, Louisiana, and you'll probably stop at the Bentley Hotel.

Mr. Bentley built that hotel, and was the biggest owner in the bank there about a block from it.

He was a character.

Fact, they tell a story about him going into the old hotel at Alexandria, in his shirt sleeves, and the proprietor came over and said, "Why, Mr. Bentley, you can't go in the dining room unless you've got a coat on."

Well, he says, "I haven't got a coat with me, and I can't eat?"

He says, "That's it."

Well, he says, "I'll build one where you can eat in your undershirt, and I'll put all of you out of business."

And so Mr. Bentley built the Bentley Hotel, which is the best hotel in Alexandria to this day, and they say that's the reason why he built it, but I can't prove this.

O.- Do you know about any feuds that went on in the Big Thicket?

G.- Well, I don't; 'course, we had lots of killings in there and different things, and lots of people that didn't get along with one another.

But just to point out several specific ones, I don't believe I could.

O.- About when did those people come in there?

G.- Oh, those people drifted down in there and settled In the Big Thicket when we were under Mexico.

A lot of 'em drifted down out of Nacogdoches County in there, as that was about the first settlement in Texas by the Mexican government.

And of course, a lot of 'em got grants all through there and went down and lived on their property.

O.- Well, are they a well educated group of people or not?

G.- Well, some of 'em were, and some wasn't.

Some of 'em were very fine people and then some of 'em were pretty low.

There's some of 'em made a principal living through theft, but we've eradicated about practically all of that.

We don't have any trouble much any more.

O.- Law enforcing officers can get in now.

G.- Oh, yeah, they can get in to any part of it and just like both my companies -- we keep a land man at Kountze, in a nice pick-up truck, and makes weekly reports and cruises all the land every week.

The same thing in Leesville, Louisiana.

O. - So you have a quick check on ---

G.- Yeah, and a person couldn't steal anything much.

Maybe he could steal a truck load of logs, but we'd catch him.

You have very little trouble now, and we've even gone in now and are renting our lands for pastures for cattle.

We've got quite a bit of it fenced and ---

O.- That's in the Thicket?

G.- Yeah

O.- All right

G.- Yeah

O.- Well, has all the Thicket been explored now, or not?

G.- Oh, yeah, yeah, every bit of it. You can take the oil companies -- why, they've explored the Big Thicket probably more than anyone else.

O.- Yeah

G.- Because they're continually running their geophysical instruments through there, checking it.

O.- It wasn't explored in 1900, was it?

G.- Oh, no, no, but you can still get in there and get lost.

O.- Well, have you ever heard the term "Red-bone" applied to anybody?

G.- Well, yes, and there's quite a few of 'em still scattered around over this country, and a great many of 'em in the hill parishes of Louisiana.

Some of 'em are very good people and of course, the majority of 'em aren't -- very treacherous.

O.- What is a "Red-bone?"

G.- Well, a "Red-bone" is a cross between the darkey and the white man,

and at times, just looking at 'em, they're very hard to detect, because they'd be just -- the women would probably be just as fair as the white women.

O.- Is there any Indian mixture in them?

G.- Yes, and especially you can take around -- you can go in the seaport towns, and 'course, that's where every nationality is mixed up.

A lot of those people have drifted into the woods and all.

O.- Yeah G.- You'll find a lot of people living back in the woods that have got afflicted children and all.

I have thought a great many times that they went back in there just to hide those afflictions.

O.- Is that right?

G.- Yeah

O.- Well, do you suppose there's been a great deal of intermarriage among those people in the Thicket?

G.- Quite a bit, quite a bit.

'Course, you can take in later years, with the wars and all, and the boys traveling all over this country and Europe and all -- well, they've kind of gotten weaned away from the woods, and they have gone into the towns and cities and they're better educated and gotten good jobs.

Then they'll come back home and probably fix up their house and put In electricity and bathroom and paint it.

There's been a big advance in all that.

Then a lot of electric ice boxes -- and throughout this country now we've got electricity in practically any place you would want it.

O.- In the Thicket?

G.- Yes sir,

and you'll find that these people back in the woods that are energetic, they live and have the conveniences that you have in the city.

O.- Most of that due to rural electrification?

G.- Rural electrification and good roads and automobiles.

They've certainly transformed the country -- and radio and television.

And now you just don't keep up with your neighborhood business -- why they keep up with the business all over the world.

There's no such thing as going back in the woods to get a bargain, because those women and men sit around those radios, and they run 'em all day long.

They keep up with the egg market and the poultry market and the hog market and the cattle market, just anything.

O.- Great deal of change then since the boom times.

G.- Yes sir, tremendous.

O.- Do you remember any roughnecks who came out of the Thicket?

Do you remember them by name?

G.- Well, yes, and quite a number of 'em.

I've got a good friend named Lloyd, that's a driller; in fact, he can run any part of a rig.

I drove out to a drilling rig on the edge of Big Thicket not long ago, and this was a contract job.

And my son said to me, said, "Why, Dad, you're not going to find out anything about this well because this is a contract rig, and probably came 200 or 300 miles in here."

And I said, "Well, it'll be the first one that I don't know someone on it."

So we drove in on the plank road and parked and I got out.

And I decided I would walk around and take a look at the boilers.

They had four boilers and a drilling head there, and as I walked up in front of one of these boilers -- why, Lloyd walked up.

And I said, "Gee, Lloyd, what are you doing here?"

Well, he says, "I couldn't get on as a driller; I'm fireman."

So we had a good talk and laugh and I asked him about the well, and 'course, I got all the information.

He said if anything happened, if it looked like it was any good, he'd telephone me.

But the well was drilled down to about 9,500 feet, and drilled dry.

That's what you hear from over 50% of 'em.

Even now with all their modern methods and everything else.

O.- Did you at any time actually work on an oil well?

G.- No, I sat around 'em.

I could, I believe, do practically any part of it, if I was strong enough now.

I've watched everything on a drilling rig for so doggone long, and I still like to sit around and watch 'em drill.

I got lots of old drillers that come in here every week to see me, and roughnecks and what have you.

O.- Well, you must have been around them -- well, enough to know their language pretty well.

G.- I knew it very well.

O.- Did you ever hear the term "dickey bird"?

G.- No, I don't believe I did.

Don't believe I did, Mr. Owens.

'Course, you'll -- there's a lot of different terms on the drilling rig, but you'll find them -- they're just people like you and myself.

O.- Yeah

G.- And very cordial, as a rule very honest and hard working.

They work as an absolute team because if you haven't got teamwork on a drilling rig, you can kill everybody on it-- in accidents and different things.

And the driller, of course, is responsible for the crew.

He as a rule is a very careful man.

You never hear of a fellow getting scolded and all like that.

Generally he'll just say, "Well, you did that wrong. Now go over there and fix it this way."

or "It's time to grease this stuff. How about you boys get to work greasing it."

And a drilling crew is continually busy.

If there's any time to sit down -- well, every one of 'em has got a paint brush and sitting there painting some part of the rig, keeping it up.

A lot of 'em have a lot of pride in their rig and they try to keep it in a perfect condition, and paint it up, and looking very nice.

Another voice- I'm going on, so I'll see you all later.

G.- Okay

O. - Go ahead.

G.- All right

O.- Well, that's quite different from what it was in the early days, isn't it?

G.- Oh, yes, you can go on some of these rigs now and they're all enameled,

and they're very pretty and just kept as clean and nice.

A lot of 'em got nice awnings on 'em and all, and they've got every kind of instrument on these new rigs.

In fact, all the driller has to do is just stand there and punch buttons.

And ---

O.- Do you remember any of the songs from the oil fields in the early days?

G.- No, I don't.

'Course, they would sing all the old-time songs, and all working around at their jobs.

O.- But no special oil field songs?

G.- No, none that I recollect.

O.- Well, do you remember any unusual nicknames for roughnecks?

G.- Well, I imagine about the only -- the most unusual one is just the name roughneck that they hung on 'em.

And a lot of 'em, 'course, got lot of funny nicknames from one another.

Fact, here the other day I had an old driller that came in to see me, and his nickname was Pappy.

He was about 6'4", and weighed about 250 pounds.

He came in here and wanted to look at a Slumber Jay I had.

Said he had a drilling firm that would be interested in that, and which they are.

Probably I'll make a trade through this driller with this drilling firm to go on and drill this piece of property.

Of course, the greatest expense to transportation now on these rigs is getting 'em in to the location.

Building plank roads and that's quite expensive now.

Then a lot of 'em even have to build macadamized roads.

If you're back in a low place, or boggy -- why, of course, the costs go up.

O.- Well, how did they do that in the early days?

G.- Well, they used oxen then and ox wagons.

And an oxen, of course, it was slow, and they weren't any greater.

Then they fired those boilers in those days with wood, cut there, right there on the site.

Now with all the geologists and different equipment and drilling mud and these heavy gas stratas that they encounter -- why, they've got to have excellent roads so as to get immediate service in there.

You'll see most of these trucks and all running on these plank roads, twenty to thirty miles an hour, and going in with all different kind of equipment and drilling mud.

'Course, they carry nice bunkhouses and tool houses that are portable.

Put 'em around the derrick there and a fellow can go in and he's got a nice electric fan and nice beds to sleep and rest in.

And of course, he's got all this wireless telephone and all the roughnecks have got a good dressing room and shower bath.

Some of 'em even got washing machines on the rig, electric washing machines.

O.- That's certainly a far cry from the old days.

G.- Yeah, nice toilet facilities and all.

They've certainly gone a long way.

O.- How many of these roughnecks slept on the ground in the early days?

G.- Well, all of them if they slept.

O.- Is that right?

G.- Yes sir, it was just like the early cattleman. You slept on the ground or you didn't sleep.

O.- Didn't any of them -- were many of them without tents even

G.- Oh, yes, yes, a lot of 'em, a lot of the old drilling crews, they wouldn't even go to the trouble to put up a tent.

They lived hard and rough and our success today can certainly date back to these men, because they were really pioneers.

And that would go for all our timber business and farming, cattle, and settling up our state.

The early settlers had a terrific time and had every disadvantage in fighting the Indian and different lawless class of people.

I am certainly thankful to the men that came on before me.

O.- Well, Mr. Gilbert, we've come to the end of the tape.

I want to thank you again very much for this long conversation.

G.- Well, it's been a pleasure, Mr. Owens, and I certainly want to congratulate you again on your wonderful work.

And give my very best regards to Mrs. Sharp.

O.- Thank you very much.

G.- Thank you.

(END OP TAPE) PIONEERS IN TEXAS OIL