Benjamin "Bud" Coyle Interview - Benjamin "Bud" Coyle Interview [part 1 of 4]

Primary tabs

  • PIONEERS IN TEXAS OIL TOPIC: Spindletop, Beaumont NAME: Benjamin (Bud) Coyle INTERVIEWERS W. A. Owens PLACES Houston, Texas TAPE NO. 120 DATES 7/28/53 RESTRICTIONS: None
  • Owens.- This is an interview with Mr. Coyle at his home in Houston, Texas. Would you give us your full name, sir?
  • Coyle.- Benjamin Coyle.
  • O.- Where were you born?
  • C.- Jackson County, Alabama.
  • O.- When was that?
  • C.- 1878.
  • O.- Could you tell me something about your parents, sir? Where they were from and so on?
  • C.- They were from Alabama. My father fought four years in the Southern army.
  • O.- When did you come to Texas?
  • C.- '80 .
  • O.- In 1880, yes.
  • C.- Two years old.
  • O.- Where did you settle?
  • C.- In Dallas County.
  • O.- In Dallas County. And what community?
  • C.- About five miles, well, out what is known now as Highland Park.
  • O.- Is that right, in that area?
  • C.- Yes. First school I ever went to was the corner of Mockingbird
  • Lane and Preston Road in Highland Park. But it was five miles from Dallas then.
  • O.- What was the school called?
  • C.- Oh, gosh, I don't know. It was just a country, little old one room building.
  • O.- Un-huh. And did you get all of your schooling there?
  • C.- No, then we moved on out to the Merrill neighborhood, about eight miles north of Dallas. And I went to a little school there, same kind of a little old time country school house, one room. I think they called it the Elm Springs School, but I ain't sure what it is, but I think that was the name of it. And then when I was thirteen years old, we moved to Dallas. And then I went to the sixth grade in, well I think they call it the Travis school now. It's out there on McKinney Avenue, but it's a whole lot bigger now than it was there. But that was when I taken the rheumatism. And by the time I got over that, I was so doggone big and awkward and one thing, I had to go to work that was all. I went to work. And first one thing and then another, and finally wound up skinning mules.
  • O.- Where did you skin mules?
  • C.- At Dallas. And I worked for an old fellow named Harolson, used to be partners with old man John Sharp, for several years. And then I worked for the city of Dallas, and I drove. I wound up there as kind of a straw boss. And then I come to, in 1901, I come to Spindletop.
  • O.- All right. Well ---
  • C.- Or Beaumont, and went to work for the Sharp brothers, on
  • Port Arthur road there, about halfways between Spindletop and Beaumont. Called the Pear Orchard well. And then I went from there out to Spindletop, and I worked there till the Sour Lake field come in.
  • O.- Well, I'd like to go back and ask you a few questions earlier than this. You were working as a mule skinner in Dallas. Can you remember any of the language you used in talking to the mules? Or did you yell at them?
  • C.- Terrible. Oh, Lord, I don't know nothing particular about that, but uh, always trying to do a good job. I could get a job anywhere I wanted to skinning mules.
  • O.- Yes. Well, can you tell me about the work you did for Mr. Sharp there? Were you driving mules for him also?
  • C.- No, I never did drive any mules for them at all. But I have on moving houses. We used to hook, put them on big wooden rollers and hook teams to them.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And I have taken one of my brothers' teams and drove it on one of them houses or two for Sharps. But I--outside of that, that's all the work ever I knew of Walter Sharp doing around. I never did knew him doing any dirt work at all. But old man John, I worked with him.
  • O.- Could you tell me something about old man John?
  • C.- Well, him and a fellow named Harolson--that was before I was big enough to work--in the 1890 boom in Dallas, why they had a lot of teams and went to contracting there. And the thing blew up on them and they went broke. And they divided and old man Haroldson seemed to get, he kept on contracting. But old man John got down to where he just only had a team or two. I know one time there was my father and another, some more of them got a contract.
  • My father had a team to haul gravel for the city. And old man John was in on that. And they had this boy named Joe Moss. We'd help old man John because he was getting up close, help him load his wagons so he could keep up with us. And we'd help him out for awhile. About the only time ever I was there I fooled with old man John. He came down in the oil fields though. And worked around here and run a drilling rig and one thing and another with us. But old man, I worked quite a good deal for old man Lee Haroldson.
  • O.- Yes, sir. Well, where did John Sharp live in Dallas? Do you remember?
  • C.- He lived out there on the Trinity River, what street I don't know, when I first knew of him.
  • O.- And Walter and Jim were living with him at that time?
  • C.- Yes.
  • O.- But you don't know what sorta of living arrangement they had?
  • C.- Not too hot.
  • O.- Were you ever at their house out there?
  • C.- No, never was, only by it. Oh, he had an old barn there. And it was very, just a cottage.
  • O.- Yes, all right. You didn't know Walter in Dallas at all then?
  • C.- Well, I knew him when I'd see him and one thing and another and that way. But, you know, I never, but I wasn't acquainted with him, well acquainted with him.
  • O.- How did it happen you didn't go down to Corsicana when the boom came there?
  • C.- Well, I was making just as much money at home as I could make there. And I had a mother and six sisters to look after. And I couldn't, I had to play where I could make the most money.
  • O.- Yes. What were they paying at Corsicana? Do you know?
  • C.- Dollar and a half a day.
  • O.- And they were paying more than that in Dallas.
  • C.- No, paid me the same money.
  • O.- Same money. You didn't have to move around or anything like that. All right, sir.--
  • C.- And then I never will forget I went to the street superintendent and told him I'm going to Beaumont. And I was what they called kind of the straw boss and grader man and one thing and another. And I said, "I don't know whether I'll stay or not." Some of the boys been down there, come back, you know. And oh, why you never heard such tales as they tell what kind of country it was, you know. Nothing but homesick was the matter with the boys. And so I might not know, but I said I'm going down there. And I had an excursion you know for $4.80 round trip ticket, from Dallas to Beaumont.
  • You left Dallas on Saturday night, no Friday night. And that put you into Beaumont about noon Saturday, you know. And then you had to leave there Sunday evening to come back. And I got there you know, said, "Why, shucks, it's just fine country. There's nothing wrong with this," and another thing and another. And I went out with that fellow, Will Young, got me to come down there. And they were a little bit scarce of men.
  • And Jim Sharp got hold of me and carried me right on out to Will's place. Will drilled that Pear Orchard well. And I stayed there, I stayed. Went on back in town though and run into a boy by the name of Walden that was from Corsicana, a rig builder. And he give me, then when you could sell your ticket, you know. And he give me, $3.50 for my ticket back to Dallas,
  • O. - So you got down for a very low price?
  • C.- A dollar and twenty cents, A dollar and thirty cents.
  • O.- What were the accommodations on the train?
  • C.- Just a seat, by gosh.
  • O.- Un-huh. Were there any standing?
  • C.- No, it wasn't much badly crowded.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Course I couldn't have got--I don't know about the pullman. I don't know whether there was one on the train or not. I guess there was, not over one, though.
  • O.- How did you get your meals?
  • C.- We, oh stopped at Bremont then. You stopped there that night and got a little something to eat. And then we got breakfast in Beaumont, Houston, you know. And then, oh, they didn't have no diners, then.
  • O.- Yes, just stop long enough for you to eat.
  • C.- Yes.
  • O.- All right. Well, tell me about the work you first did there on the Pear Orchard Well.
  • C.- I went there and I was a derrick man.
  • O.- How much did you know about derrick work?
  • C.- Nothing.
  • O.- Well, how did they happen to hire you for that then?
  • C.- Well, they had to learn somebody and so there was nobody knew much about it, you see. Nobody knew nothing about this rotary business much then, you know. It was very crude.
  • O.- Yes. C.- And the people wouldn't, it's hard now to get anybody to go up high .
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- They're scared of it. Well, it didn't bother me any. And they put me right up there right off the reel because they didn't have anybody else to go up there. And I worked there, I don't know, two or three months then. We was there a month or two, and we moved out to Spindletop.
  • O.- Well, before we get to Spindletop I'd like for you to describe as fully as you can actually the operation on that well, the Pear Orchard well. How did you go about drilling? This is for people who don't know anything about it.
  • C.- Well, pretty well on the order of today as that matter goes, only with much lighter stuff. And we didn't know much about mixing mud. We'd dump the clay in the pit and then rub it on the suction with out hands. And pretty well that same thing. And then when we did, instead of having a wire line for our hoisting rope, we had a two inch manila cable and things like that. And had same boiler, and engine and a rotary. However, it was much cruder than it is now and much lighter. Course we didn't go but 1500 feet on that one. And them on Spindletop just 1200 feet, you know.
  • O.- Yes. You didn't get oil at the Pear Orchard well, did you?
  • C.- No, it was a dry hole.
  • O.- Dry hole.
  • C.- And-
  • O.- How did you decide it was a dry hole?
  • C.- Well, we just didn't hit no oil sands, that was all. Them days you see, we had no core barrels and no electric testing business. You had to dig for it. And so nobody knowed too much about it and-
  • O.- Why did they locate there in the first place?
  • C.- Huh?
  • O.- Why did they locate there in the first place?
  • C.- Oh, well, they drilled wells everywhere around there. And they thought the oil would be all over the country, you know. And they didn't know nothing about it, you know, They drilled wells everywhere, you know. And the Sharp brothers just contracted that well, you see. They didn't drill it themselves. It was just a con-they were contracting and they weren't drilling any wells for themselves at all.
  • O.- I see. So they--
  • C.- And--
  • O.- But you-
  • C.- The first production they got into is, Walter found out that when them wells quit flowing and oil went up, he went around and he'd take these wells to pump them on, for half of the oil. And we was going to blow some wells with air, when I got my fingers mashed.
  • O.- Yes. Would you tell how that happened?
  • C.- Well, we was setting up an air machine and letting it down on the foundation. And I see it was beginning to stick, I put my fingers under there to move a bolt. So it hit and the doggone pipehole slipped out of the thing and fell on my fingers.
  • O.- What kind of first aid did you get?
  • C.- First aid, your foot! I got in a buggy and Ed Prather drove me to Beaumont. But I would've bet you my fingers wasn't, nails wasn't black. You know, you've heard people talk about saying, back old timer, and things you know, you got my fingers. And Ed Prather him and Walter Sharp was there. And Walter had a team fast.
  • buggy team, and the fastest in the country. And Ed just, told him, I said don't-"could you cut them, pretty hot?" He just come flying There wasn't nothing to it. They could race like a son-of-a-gun. And I says, "You're gonna kill them." "Oh," he says, "we can buy more horses but we can't buy a hand." So we kept going. Well, that never hurt me till they put it in warm water. And that finger there. It was old Dr. Cunningham I went to, they carried me to him. He was the leading doctor there. But he had a young feller in there and he was in there and he went to work on it.
  • And old Dr, Cunningham wanted to cut it off right there. And this fellow says, "if he'll stay, and I believe he'll stay with me, I can save that finger." And as long as old man, old Dr. Cunningham lived, he'd meet me in Beaumont, he'd show that finger to people. He tried every way, he could not get this, he brought this young feller there to take his place. He wanted to retire, you know. Well, they just wouldn't call on him at all. And he was all, and this fellow, I understand, went to John Hopkins Hospital and made a great doctor.
  • And, old Dr. Cunningham liked to show it to some of them old timers. He tried to convince that boy that, that young feller wasn't too young for that matter. But he was a man somewhere around thirty years old. But he sure saved my finger. And the funny part of it, I thought I never would have no fingernails on these two fingers. It didn't mash that fingernail clear off, he had to cut it off. And he told me I wouldn't have no fingernail on that, but I would this, and I couldn't believe it, but I did. And that was just a small machine. And then we built up another bigger plant than that. And blowed those wells there and on that certain percentage, you know.
  • O.- Yes. Do vou remember what tracts you were working on there?
  • C.- Well, we was in the Hogg-Swayne and Keith-Ward, and the Yellow Pine, all of them.
  • O.- All of them?
  • C.- Yes. And I forget the name of most of the wells. We had one well over there in the Yellow Pine that was on an eight foot square piece of ground. And we had just built a 20 foot derrick to handle the tubing. And it belonged to old Judge Wheelis and some fellows. And then we had one man in the Yellow Pine, old McManus. Never will forget him because he was so darn pranky. And had one for Paul Amos over there in the Yellow Pine too, Lone Acre that was. And then over there in the Hogg-Swayne and Yellow Pine, I forgot who they belonged to.
  • O.- Do you remember about what date that was?
  • C.- No.
  • O.- Do you remember exactly when you went to Spindletop?
  • C.- I went there in May.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- First time about the latter part of May. I disremember the date now.
  • O.- It'd been going about three months then when you got there?
  • C.- Yes. There was five wells there when I got there.
  • O.- Five wells there. Where did you stay when you got to Spindletop?
  • C.- Well, on that well I boarded at a Mrs. Klein's.
  • O.- In Beaumont?
  • C.- No, out there at the-it was a farmhouse. And a mighty fine place to stay too.
  • O.- Would you describe some of the things you had there at the
  • C.- Well, we just had plenty of good garden stuff. They raised a good garden and chickens. They just had good meals. And I never will forget old man Lee Young. Perhaps they've told you about him.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And he's dead. Well, old man Lee come along there one day walking out of Beaumont. And that was the stopping point when there was the first rig, you know. They'd stop there. And one of these boys was working for us, for Major Klein, was working there with us when we boarded at his mother's house. And he ask me, reckon he could get dinner down there. He got there about dinnertime. I said, "I don't know. Ask this boy here'. And old man Lee used to laugh about what a meal he got for twenty-five cents. The old lady charged him a quarter for that dinner, you know. And, oh it was, we had everything nearly, just a good family meal, you know.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Well, when I moved out to Spindletop I lived at Sharp's camp. And they had an A-number one camp.
  • O.- Would you describe that camp for me?
  • C.- Well, we had tents to sleep in. But we had a dining room and a kitchen of wood. And over on one side of that was a row of shelves with any kind of canned fruit might near in the market, peaches, pears, and everything, you know. And if you just, if anybody wanted some of that fruit, they just asked for it, whether anybody else wanted any or not. The flunkies, we called them, the waiter was supposed to open it up and give it to him.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And we just had to (?)
  • O.- Well, how many were in that camp, how many living there then?
  • C.- Let's see, there's, oh, I guess forty of fifty of us maybe.
  • O.- And Sharp had that many men employed?
  • C.- Yes, he had five or six well rigs running night and day, you see.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- There was thirty or forty of us-stayed there anyway, maybe more, I know it was a pretty good bunch. And we had good cooks.
  • O.- You were better off than most people at Spindletop then?
  • C.- Yes. Sturm brothers had a good-well, Wes Strum, I think, had about the best camp down there. And they was considered about the best. I know it was the best one there. It was a very good camp.
  • O.- Do you remember where it was located?
  • C.- At first, they first put it down there up the railroad track, up in there where Yount got them wells, down there in a flat. But I only eat only one meal there, and then they moved it up into the Yellow Pine. Then, see, there wasn't but a well or two, or there wasn't any wells in the Yellow Pine when they moved it there.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Just drilling them. And, had Higgins well off down there a little ways further. And then we moved it down there by Gladys City depot, and that's where it all over there, they sold it, I guess. I don't know what happened.
  • O.- Yes. But you lived for a long time near the depot there?
  • C.- Well, after we moved down there, I had a house to live in. And while we dug in the Yellow Pine, why Jim carried me home with him and i stayed at home. Course we'd eat a good deal there at the camp, but I slept at Jim's house. And we'd eat breakfast generally at the house.
  • might near all we'd ever eat at his house because we'd-a lot of times we'd eat dinner there. But we'd nearly always eat our lunch out at the Hill or in town.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And, see, the only way you could get around was a team.
  • O.- Well, where did Jim live at that time?
  • C.- He lived out on the Port Arthur road, pretty close to that pear orchard there. It was an old two story house.
  • O.- Was it a pretty good house there?
  • C.- No. Oh it was a good house but it had no bath, but had a Chick Sale.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And Jim was a great shooter, and he'd shoot a hole in that Chick Sale. And then go to enlarging it until, by gosh, it got--. One day they went to New Orleans and I got a carpenter down there and built a new one. Jim said, "Oh." "Why," I said, "you just dare shoot at that," I told him, said, "by God," I said. He said, "What the--." I said, "Why, by God, man," I said, "it's just like setting down out in the yard the way you had it shot full of holes. There had to be a new one put out there." And we lived there and never will forgot. All, you know, all got sick in Beaumont, and had the bowel trouble, you know.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Well, when we'd eat at home when we come, Jim both and I got bad. Went to old Doc Cunningham, and we'd been buying big steaks and Mrs. Sharp was a crack cook. She done her own cooking. She'd broil that steak and we'd, young, you know, and eat a half of a bull.
  • And Doctor Cunningham told us to lay off of that stuff. He said this thing's got so overcrowded here that they can't take proper care of this beef.
  • O.- Yes. C.- And he said that's the most of the thing. He said you drink good water and lay off that beef and eat just this, eat more, eat cured meat. He said this meat here, said they can't take care of it. Says it doesn't spoil but said it just gets enough along, it'll make you sick. And he says of course drinking any of this water will do it. And the mosquitos, (whistle) - that's the first time ever I saw any mosquitos. And they'd eat you up if you got out. Had to put two mosquito bars over your bed to keep 'em out.
  • O.- Well, what'd you do in the daytime when you were working"
  • C.- They didn't bother you on the rig much. The steam and one thing and another kept them away. And naturally I was up in there. Get up in the field, there wouldn't be many up in the field. Of course them wells, that oil kept them away, you know.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- But just get away from there, and it was awful.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- I know the Haywood people had a pumping well there. And it was run by steam, a walking beam. And there was an old mule would back up to that steam there, you know, and stand there. And tell a fellow, "I bet you five dollars you can't keep that old mule out of that steam ten minutes." You couldn't, he went over you
  • O.- Why, because it kept the mosquitoes--
  • C.- Mosquitoes off of him.
  • O.- A bright mule.
  • C.- Yes. He'd go out and eat grass and he'd just come flying back to that steam, back up there and you couldn't get him away from there.
  • O.- Well, now how much after that were you married? About how much later were you married?
  • C.- Oh, gosh. I wasn't married till '16.
  • O.- Until 1916?
  • C.- Yes.
  • O.- All right, then we can just carry you as a bachelor through all this.
  • C.- All right.
  • O.- Good. Could you tell me a little more about Jim Sharp's family life while you were staying there with him?
  • C.- Well, it was very pleasant there the first part of it, but the last part of it I wouldn't like to say anything about that.
  • O.- All right, fine. Now then, where was Walter living at that time?
  • C.- In Beaumont.
  • O.- Do you know where in Beaumont?
  • C.- Well, when he first moved there, I don't know whether he stayed at the Crosby House, but when they built that-what was it? Not--
  • O.- The Oaks?
  • C.- Oaks Hotel why he moved out there.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And, now I think he moved out of that and may have bought a
  • place there. But anyway he moved here to Houston, he bought this old, what was called Sauter (?) place out here, you know, where Sears and Roebuck is.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- There's 35 acres, I believe, out there, or something like that And old Sauter run the first swell restaurant here.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And he went out there and built this nice home and everything so he could be in the country. And was going to raise his own produce and one thing and another, you know. And he went broke. But they built that streetcar line up there. Anyway everybody thought Walter Sharp was crazy for giving $35,000 for it
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- I'll tell you that. And it's the foundation, if you want to know the truth of it, it's the foundation of Sharp's money today. Walter didn't have too much money when he died, or have none. And his manner didn't crave too much money. And so they held on to that, you know, and old man J. S. Cullinan bought a place up here, you know, and it used to be fashionable around Crawford up in there and Rust, somewhere in that. I disremember now just where it was you know. And give nearly as much for it as Walter did his and I think he sold his at a loss. Then went even out further than Walter and bought real, way out further than Walter did.
  • O.- Well, how did the--they must have been operating on a pretty narrow margin in those early days there.
  • C.- Well, I'll say they were.
  • O. Could you tell me anything about how narrow that margin was.
  • what the--
  • C.- Now when I went to work for them, they had money to pay off with. But I know that before that they were awfully hard runs, awfully hard runs. And they just had a terrible time. I know some fellows worked for them a long time without any pay. And old George Rainey was one of them and they helped him out though for it. And he'd done all right if he'd got----oh, they didn't do too bad about him.
  • O.- Well, George Rainey was serving as a kind of partner with them anyway, wasn't he?
  • C.- No, no only a little bit they cut him in on some stuff and made him some money there in Beaumont.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- But before that he was just a driller, one of their main drillers.
  • O.- Yes. C.- Water-well drillers. And so he never, he cut out pretty soon. After he got 25 or 30 thousand dollars, he thought he had all the money in the world and he quit, and went in the grocery business. I never will forget it, the hardest business in the world, you know. And went round and round with it and finally old George, he went flat broke. I had him night watching down here at Refugio. And I guess he's dead now. Surely he ain't a 100 years old. Cause George was 10 or 12 years old when I was born
  • O.- Well how long were you then at Spindletop?
  • C.- Oh well I'll have to check back on that, I stayed there till, till that well blew out in 1903.
  • O.- In Sour Lake?
  • C.- Sour Lake. And then I went over there.
  • O.- Yes, Well, before we go to Sour Lake, I'd like to ask you some more questions about Spindletop. I'd like for you to describe Walter Sharp at that time.
  • C.- Well, he was tall and red-headed fellow. A kind of distinguished looking man, and not an ugly man or a handsome man. But just a fair looking man. And a fellow that had a wonderful mind. He was about three days ahead of anybody.
  • O.- Is that right? Can you give me any examples of how he was ahead of--
  • C.- Well, he just could think of things faster. Ed Prather will tell you that. And kind of like a fellow on the order of Jesse Jones, you know. Just out think anybody else. And he was just a man that'd take a chance. And, didn't take a foolhardy chance, you know. He just come up the hard way, I'll tell you that.
  • O.- Do you remember any of his expressions, how he talked?
  • C.- No, I don't particular. He talked like anybody else. I remember one night, though, Jim Sharp done all the looking after the drilling rigs mostly.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And had a fishing job. And we had to have some slips, which was very--and I didn't know the fellow that had them that I wanted, but Walter did. And Jim was gone, and I knew where Jim was at but I wouldn't tell him because Jim told me not to tell him. And we was carrying that stuff along. "Where's Jimmy?" He kind of talked fast. I said, "I don't know." "Oh," he said, "if I could get you fellows to stick to me like they do Jimmy, well," he said, "we'd all get rich." And I said, "You mean we'd all get fired."
  • And he never did ask me where Jimmy was anymore,
  • O.- Was Jim in the habit of taking off on the job?
  • C.- Oh yes, yes.
  • O.- What would he do, go--
  • C.- Oh, well hell, I don't know what he done, (inaudible)
  • O.- Well, how well did Walter get along with his men?
  • C.- Huh?
  • O.- How long did Walter get along, how well did he get along with his men?
  • C.- Oh, they'd go through fire and high water and everything else for him. He was a man that was a leader of men, you know, just natural bom leader of men. A fellow that treated you right.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And as long as you'd turn out the work, why he'd do anything for you, try to help you any way in the world.
  • O.- Yes. Do you remember any arguments between him and his men?
  • C.- Any what?
  • O.- His men, any arguments--
  • C.- No, I never did hear him or Jim either one have an argument with the men.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- I know Jim had a cousin that he tried to work and he got drunk and all. And he was mad enough to kill him but he just pointed at him, but Bill knew enough to leave.
  • O.- What was his, what was his name?
  • C.- Bill Flanagan. He was a character if there ever was one, a terrible character, this Bill Flanagan was.
  • O.- Well, tell us some more about him.
  • C.- Oh, old Bill was, they were cousins and they was raised up together. And Bill's folks had a little bit more. His family, father and mother, he lived on, you know. And Bill come out here and he got to drinking. He's just an awful drunkard. They couldn't do nothing with him. They tried ever way in the world, but they just couldn't do nothing with him. And nobody could and old Bill he finally of course killed himself drinking.
  • O.- Yes. C.- Bill was quite a character and a fellow that you couldn't keep from liking. So, like Jim says, "I swear I could kill him, just kill him dead." But said, "He'd come back and cry on my shoulder if I did." He said, "I can't." And he told me, he said, they didn't have a regular payday. They hadn't got, you know, nothing organized then, you know. And just anytime you wanted some money or payday just tell them you want some money and he'd count it out to you.
  • And when he'd leave he'd go to the bank and get a thousand dollars and give it to me to pay off with. If any of the boys wanted any money, why they'd come. And he always told me, said, "Don't never give him, but feed him, don't ever give him over a dollar. But don't never turn him down if he comes around wanting some money." He says, "If he looks to shabby, buy him some new clothes." But said, "Don't give him over a dollar cause said he'll go get drunk."
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- But he hardly ever come around. They was just that kind of fellows. And if you wanted any help for any of the men that'd get in trouble
  • or anything, you could always count on them for at least a hundred dollars.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- They helped bury or do anything like people done that way, you know. They, Jack Snyder wouldn't be better to the men at all and (-)
  • O.- But they'd help out?
  • C.- Yes, they always,--
  • O.- Did you hear any actual squabbles between Walter and Jim?
  • C.- No, no never did. They got along awful well.
  • O.- Yes. All right. We'll come back to talk about some of the other people you worked with. I'd like to ask you a little bit about the life on the Hill at that time.
  • C.- Well, it was just like any other camp life. Now, when I first went there, there was a restaurant or two. An old fellow Daugherty had a boarding house. It was a regular--I think he was from the East somewhere. I know it was one regular flophouse. And the old saying is, he had regular Bowery waiters and he's an old Irishman, tough as the deuce. And I never did eat there. And tell on one fellow, said one day, to one of the waiters said, "Look here, got a fly in my soup."
  • He said, "What the hell you want in there, ants?" So then the first saloon I knowed anything about opening up there was Clint Ganell's (??) Log Cabin. Now on the front page of this here oil Spindletop book, they got the Log Cabin a one story building. It was a two story building.
  • O.- Is that right?
  • C.- Yes. And so I know, and the toughest outfit that followed the oil fields them days was the tank builders, these steel tank builders.
  • You had to be tough to do that the way they done it. They, oh man, they'd heat them rivets and beat them up with them hammers and stand up there and say that they was tough. And I know, we had a little buckboard and a team that I drove around there, I come booting through there one day and a fellow that I knew from Dallas, named Peak, And old Wallace come out of a good family there in Dallas and they left him some money but he spent it. And he was just kind of a hobo around. He'd work awhile and hang around them joints.
  • And Wallace was standing out there and I saw ten men fighting, five couples fighting And out there on the ground, you know. I says, "What the dickens, what' the fight about?" He said, "Believe it or not," he said, "I've traveled this United States and I've saw lots of fights, gang fights and one another. "As far as I can find out, there's not neither one of them none of them fighting about the same thing." Said, "One or two of them is fighting to find out who's the best man. They ain't mad at one another, just fighting there to see who's the best man."
  • O.- Was there a lot of that fighting going on?
  • C.- Well, not too much more than--quite a little bit of it. And there wasn't any, too much gambling for a good while on the Hill there. And you don't get them gangs around too much, you know, till you get the gambling mixed up with it.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And then two or three more saloons opened up there and restaurants and boarding houses. Old man Lee Young opened up a boarding house, and I know that he taken our cook with him, by golly, and-
  • O.- Was that a Negro cook?
  • C.- No, had a white man had a German. But first cook I got, though,
  • he couldn't boil water. Doggone, that was the biggest joke you ever saw. But I was so mad at old man Lee Young for taking old Gus from us that I couldn't see, but I jumped onto a Frenchman. A Frenchie is all--I forget the others-he had a French name. But he was a better cook than the Dutchman.
  • O.- Yes. C.- He had been a pastry cook in a bakery shop for years. And I knew he made the best hot rolls. I know he baked them twice a week, he'd bake bread twice a week. He baked his own bread, you know. And it was good too. And he'd have them hot rolls. And I'd made it around there to get me a cup of coffee and them hot rolls in the evenings.
  • Ed Prather and Walter Sharp come out there one day looking for me. Somebody said, "I think he's gone to the camp," and they come down. I said, "Come in and have a hot roll and a cup of coffee, boys." Said, We'll just do that." Well, they come in there, I don't know how many of them hot rolls they eat. And they put down in their books what date it was.
  • Everytime they could get there on that date, they'd get there and get them some hot rolls. And so we hated to disband that camp but when they went to Sour Lake to do that prospecting work, why, that there drilling crew all went over there and--
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And I stayed there with that pumping.
  • O.- There was no point in keeping a camp?
  • C.- No, I stayed at the camp.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And eat other places.
  • O.- Well, can you give roe the names of some of the other saloons that opened up there?
  • C.- No, I can't. I forget them now. In fact I didn't go up there much
  • O.- Yes. How many hours a day were you working then?
  • C.- Just all the time nearly. I was subject to call anytime of night or day.
  • O.- Yes, and what were they paying you for it?
  • C.- $150 a month and board.
  • O." Well, that was a pretty good salary then?
  • C.- Oh, yes, that was a big salary. And board and--
  • O.- Well, did they bring women into-
  • C.- Huh?
  • O.- Did they bring women into Spindletop also or not?
  • C.- Yes, oh, they had families living there. Now Mrs. Mitchell, Mike Mitchell's wife, could tell you the social life of Spindletop, Sour Lake and Batson.
  • O.- Is that right? C.- Yes, sir. She, oh I don't know, she was just kind of, Irma was a wonderful girl, just a wonderful girl. And she wasn't pretty, which you can see her now, nothing like that. But she'd see every body had a nice time, you know. And she was really the belle of the woods.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- By gosh, might near the only one of course because she was, the first girl that I can remember meeting in the oil fields.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And I know she was. She come on to Batson, Sour Lake, and Batson
  • and Humble. And she married old Mike out there. But old Mike courted her a long time before he married her, I know, I've met her.
  • O.- Were her people working in the oil fields?
  • C.- Yes, her father was, and brothers were. One brother works around, one of 'em is in a bank up at Vivian, Louisiana. I don't know what become of them boys. One of 'em died. And--
  • O.- Well, what did you do for entertainment yourself? You were a bachelor out there.
  • C.- I hate to tell you. We come to Beaumont to do our entertaining.
  • O.- Oh, is that right?
  • C.- Yes. Well I used to go to a few little parties around Beaumont there and little dances and one thing and another. And--
  • O.- Did they actually have dances out at Spindletop?
  • C.- Yes. Ought to get Mrs. Mitchell to tell about one. Mike and I--what Mike and I done. Mike didn't know her, I didn't know her either at that time, (inaudible). You know we use to use cypress tanks instead of steel tanks for settling tanks.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And Jess Lincoln and some old dead-pecks run one of them outfits and he laid two of them 1200 barrel tanks bottoms on the ground and had a dance one night. Well, Mike Mitchell worked for Sturm and their camp was right over there. We'd visit backwards and forwards, you know. And he was over there and there was a darn old dog hung around, got to hanging around the camp.
  • I said, "That old flea dog, I want to get rid of him. Mike, you hold him I'll tie a tin can on his tail." "I'll hold him." He was an awful fool of a guy, and he got hold of him and said, "I'm going to point him towards that
  • dance." They was just dancing over there. Well, sir, that old dog just run right through that and scattered gals and boys, Mrs. Mitchell will tell that on us everytime. And she says the first man she ever heard really cuss was Mike, Said she was passing Mike's camp with another fellow.
  • And said Mike was cussing out somebody, and when he's cussing out somebody, he's cussing them out, there wasn't anything to it. She said, "I've never, why I never heard anything like that." Said, "Oh, that's just old Mike Mitchell. Don't pay no attention to him go on," he says.
  • But said, "I never did think that'd be my husband." So she was the only one that just stuck it out as I knew anything about,
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And went from one to the other, course as a married woman did.
  • O.- Well, where did she go to church, or did she go to church?
  • C.- She's a Methodist. And, well, she had to go to Beaumont to go to church then.
  • O.- Yes. They hadn't put up any sort of mission out there--
  • C.- No.
  • O.- ---at that time.
  • C.- No. But I didn't know nothing about it if they did, I'm sure it wasn't there. Of course I think of course afterwards they did, but as long as I stayed there they didn't. And--
  • O.- Well, how much attention did they pay to Sunday at Spindletop?
  • C.- Nothing. It was just another day.
  • O.- You were working seven days a week?
  • C.- Seven days a week. See, them wells we couldn't shut them down when we was drilling. And production parts had to go on seven days a week.
  • O.- Did you have any men hurt while you were there at Spindletop, besides yourself?
  • C.- None to amount to anything at all.
  • O.- Nobody killed on one of your rigs?
  • C.- No, I never had anybody killed on my rig. I had two fellows fall dead on me, but I didn't never have nobody killed.
  • O.- Well, what would you do in a case like that when was it from a heart attack?
  • C.- Yes. Well, one of them I just loaded up in a car and took him in to a hospital but he was dead before he left. And the other one I called the ambulance out, that was out here at the ?? at Beaumont. And everything, that's what you do, you know.
  • O.- Yes. Did you see anybody killed on any of the other rigs?
  • C.- No, I never did see anybody killed. I've been there right after they were killed.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- But I never saw anybody killed.
  • O.- Did you have any fires in your rig?
  • C.- Huh?
  • O.- Did you have any fires at Spindletop in your rig?
  • C.- Oh that Hogg-Swayne burnt down. Me and my men put it out one night.
  • O.- I'd like to hear about that.
  • C.- Well, of course that was at night. Had several fires around there. And we just went up there, and never will forget it. Most all the rest of the bosses stayed in town, you know.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And of course the only way they could get out there was horse
  • and buggies, you know. And time they got their livery horses hooked up and got out there, we had the fire under control. I just lit out and tore a string of derricks down and dumped them back into the fire, you know. Never will forget it. There was one fellow, Guy Speed. Speed or Snead, I think his name was Speed, Had a rig that he'd had a lot of trouble with and he had a lot of pipe standing in it.
  • And it, and he had his screw there and everything the way he had it and we could, had some steam where we could fight it. And he said, "Let's hold up just as long as we can from tearing that down. It'll ruin me, it'll just ruin me if we have to throw that pipe all down and everything," Well, out come these here two bit papas, bosses, and one thing and another, foremen, superintendents around there.
  • And they proceeded to take charge, you know, or thinks they was taking charge. And that sulfuric gas would get in your eyes out there and just go blind, I've been blinded with that for 24 hours at a time. And it didn't feel good either,
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And boys fighting that with a hose that couldn't see from here to that door. And he didn't care much about them dudes no how, And we poured muddy water on that derrick there to keep it from fire. And he run up there, one of these fellows did, and this old boy just turned that hose right in his face.
  • And he said he done it accidentally, but I know, it didn't make no difference. And he hit him and the man, this was a boy, wasn't over 18 years old. And he had a brother and they wasn't scared of the devil. And give the devil three licks at them and then tear into him. And they tore into that guy and the other run up, and that went on, you know. And we
  • had considerable little fight there for awhile. And they wrote it up in the-oh, we was the biggest ruffians that ever was, how we treated them fellows out there. And Judge Swayne, I tried to stop it in a way till somebody, a little old fellow named Steely hit me.
  • And I socked him around there. And they say I hit old Judge Swayne but I don't think I did. I think old Judge Swayne fell down. He said, didn't anybody ever hit him. But they had it all twisted, biggest bunch of ruffians in the world, you know. We pretty well skinned up them two or three dudes we didn't like no how,
  • O.- Yes. C.- And so they wrote that, you know, and my men blowed up on it. I had a fellow working for me named Smith. They called him Raggedy End Smith, not--we didn't use that word. It was pronounced with Raggedy Well. I knew he was very smart and a mystery of a kind of a fellow, get drunk once in a while. He read that, said, "Let me answer that." I said, "Have at it." And he sat down and he answered it.
  • And I give it to Jim Sharp. Jim read it and said, "Who wrote that?" I told him old Raggedy Smith. He says., "I've been talking to that guy. Wonder what, there's a mystery to him some way or 'nother, you know." Jim carried it, and Jim was mad about it too. Carried it in there. Man said, "Who wrote that?" Said, "We can't print that. My Lord, we'll apologize for what we print but we can't print that."
  • And he said, "Let me tell you something or 'nother. We've been looking for a guy and heard he was this way. There isn't but one guy loose can write that. Is his name Smith?" Jim says, "Yes," "Why," he says, he's been on every big paper in the East. We've been-look, we want him." He come in there and he told him no. And I said, "What's the
  • matter, Smith?" He says, "I'm doing pretty good. I've got to get this whiskey out of me. In about three or four maybe another six months I'll have it out of me. If you notice, I don't get drunk hardly anymore at all. When I'm satisfied that I can do without it, I'm going back." Well, the only piece ever I saw wrote correctly about what went on, when old Smith wrote a good-bye letter to all of us boys, and we put it in the Enterprise.
  • O.- Is that right?
  • C.- And he put down the correct kind of dope. And that kind of characters you run on to, you know, that fellow there that I know one day I was driving into Spindletop I saw a fine looking fellow, had on a high hat and a frock coat and a cane. And I just thought it was some old Englishman or Easterner out for a walk. He walked out to Spindletop and I wish you could've saw him next morning. He got out there and caught some pipeliners on a spree and he joined them.
  • And they cut the crown out of that hat and they put grease on his face and you never saw- and he never was clean after that. Called him Yorky, I never did--he was a lawyer, a drunken lawyer out of New York.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C. And they just called him Yorky. I never did know what his name was.
  • O.- How long did he stay around there?
  • C.- He stayed around there in Sour Lake and Batson and that's the last I remember of him in Batson. I don't know whether his folks come and got him or something, what happened, or he died, I guess.
  • O.- What did he work at?
  • C.- Nothing that I never knowed. Oh, kind of a flunkie around saloons
  • and around restaurants and one thing and another, I don't know. I never did know him to do anything. Just a bum, just a pure-D bum. But he, if you'd saw him coming out there I'd thought it was some of them walking nuts, you know, and wasn't paying much attention to him, I was going into town and he was coming out.
  • O.- Do you remember any other characters like that?
  • C.- Oh, well, there was many a one, many a one. You couldn't think of all them. And--
  • O.- Do you remember any women characters out at Spindletop?
  • C.- Well, no, not particular. The only woman that was noted around there was Mrs. Shelby about her good pies she could bake.
  • O.- Oh.
  • C.- And run a little restaurant, and she had a drunked husband. I never will forget the, he was a good cook. And between the two of them they could bake the best--they had the best bakery famous for pies, had a tent. I know the first time that I ever knew of old Shelby to get on a drunk, why she, just him and her would run it, you know. And she was closed up, had a sign out, "Shelby's gassed."
  • Everytime a fellow'd get out of pocket he would be gassed, you know, and his eyes his blind. We always called when Shelby would get drunk. She followed clear on to Humble. But she run the best restaurant and she was the finest kind of a woman. And I guess she was about the most there. I don't think old lady Smith run a boarding house there.
  • She was a character at Sour Lake and Batson in a way. Run a big boarding house and board lots of men. But as far as prostitutes out there on the Hill, the only one that was out there that ever I knew that stayed out there was Clint Ganell's woman. She-that's the reason I can
  • remember the upstairs.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- However, the women used to drive out there a good deal, but they didn' t-
  • O.- They didn't stay out there then but this one stayed up-
  • C.- Now then, they built a lot of earthen tanks and called it South Africa. And it was across that marsh to where that caught all that oil that burnt up when the Lucas Gusher come in.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- The mosquitoes in there, I don't know how you get through there on foot. And some of them high browned ladies over there decided they'd come over to make them some money at Spindletop. I didn't see this but I know it happened. I heard the hollering but we didn't go up there. There was always hollering and yelling around up there and laughing going on you know.
  • And I drove down Boiler Avenue there and heard the hollering but I just thought it was a bunch over there cutting up. And five of them come over there, And them fellows, just them roughnecks and pipeliners and things, just jumped out there and stripped them stark naked. And set all their clothes afire and started them back through that marsh naked.
  • I don't know how them nigger wenches ever got back through there naked alive as bad as it was. I guess they did. Far as living out there, they didn't live out there none that I knew of,
  • O.- Yes, Did you mention Boiler Avenue?
  • C.- Un-huh.
  • O.- What was that, where did it get its name and so on?
  • C.- Well that was a macadamized road that run through the field there.
  • And, you see, they drilled a lot of them wells, only had 20 foot of ground, you know, And they had no place to put the boiler. They put it out on the road. All the boilers, just whole strings of boilers strung up and down Boiler Avenue. We just dubbed it Boiler Avenue .
  • O. - Yes. Were there any other streets or avenues like that, that--
  • C.- Well, oh yes. There was other little--I don't know whether they ever named that, you know, or not. And I don't know, we never did know then by any roads, only Boiler Avenue there.
  • O.- Yes. And kind of like two roads of it or anything, you know, and come up there and turn down and all the boilers was on, and we just called it Boiler Avenue.
  • O.- Yes. You never had any sort of newspaper out at Spindletop except those from Beaumont?
  • C.- No.
  • O.- Did you ever have any sort of mass meeting out there of any sort?
  • C.- No, one Sunday there they run all the niggers off, the only mass meeting ever I know. They had a meeting there and I didn't join it, cause I wouldn't join a mob of no kind.
  • O.- Well could you describe what went on though.
  • C.- Well, they just run them niggers off.
  • O.- What were the Negroes doing out there?
  • C.- The niggers were driving teams and one little thing or two, nothing much.
  • O.- How many of them?
  • C.- Well, there was quite a few of them around there. And I never will forget one fellow on horseback, riding a grey horse and he had a rope.
  • Had whiskers, I didn't know him, And it was Sunday afternoon and I was getting ready to go call my girl in Beaumont. And they told me, I heard this noise and all, and they come down there. And he got after a nigger. The nigger tried to get away with his suitcase.
  • And I swear to goodness that guy, he outrun that horse and that fellow on that, with that suitcase for 300 yards right down that road. And he finally jumped over the fence on the right of way and the fellow couldn't get over there and got away. Never did drop his suitcase though.
  • O.- Were they living out there then?
  • C.- Well, some of them living around there,
  • O.- Un-huh.
  • C.- All, and this one was coming from that. He wasn't there. He was just coming from that South Africa, where they had them niggers drive mules and things over there, you know. Didn't bother them.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C. - And I don't know. Somebody tried to break some out there for pipeline work or something or other to start-
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- And disremember now just what started it. But I never was in no mob because I know they won't stick. And just never would be in them. But Spindletop, very little trouble went on there. I don't remember whether there ever was a man shot up there on Spindletop there in the early days at all, around the saloons or anything. I don't ever remember anything about that. That business didn't come off till we got to Sour Lake,
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Got over there in Hardin County, Whew!
  • O.- Quite different.
  • C.- Where I wasn't gun shy.
  • O.- Yes. Well I'll get a lot of that a little later. Right now I want to get everything that I can about Spindletop. Did you see Governor Hogg out there in those days?
  • C.- Oh yes.
  • O.- Well, could you tell me something about his trips to Spindletop?
  • C.- I don't believe ever I saw him on the Hill.
  • O.- You just saw him in Beaumont?
  • C.- Oh, well, he sat around there on that old Crosby House porch, was the only place ever, he was a great big old guy. And only where I ever saw him was sitting around. In my life.
  • O.- Yes. Do you remember any of the stories about him?
  • C.- Oh I, some, I don't know, not too many. Only what everybody tells you know.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Which a lot of them ain't so.
  • O.- Yes, well I'm sure of that. Any man who is a character is likely to have stories told about him, country tradition.
  • C.- Him and let's see, him and old Tom Campbell and Judge Brooks and Swayne and all the guys. Well, they bought that lease and then cut it up there and didn't make as much money as people thought they did, they thought they was gonna make, They held on to a part of it for a oil well, you know. And course they let it all run down the ditch, they didn't sell it.
  • O.- Yes. Well that was a tough one.
  • C.- Huh?
  • O. That was a tough one.
  • C.- Yes.
  • O.- Well, what about Patillo Higgins? Did you see him around there?
  • C.- Oh I used to see him off and on, not too much.
  • O.- What were they saying about him by that time?
  • C.- Oh, nothing too much.
  • O.- Yes.
  • C.- Only that he was just another one of them fellows that didn't acquire through there and contract around you and talk about. I never did know him. I knew his boys but years and years afterwards .
  • O.- Yes, sir. That was at Humble wasn't it? Did you know the Sturm brothers pretty well?
  • C.- Yes, I knew Bill pretty well. Wes, he was kind of a quiet kind of fellow, didn't know him too well. But I knew Bill well.
  • O.- How successful were they in their operations at Spindletop?
  • C.- Wes was pretty successful. He got there by contract and I didn't ever know of him ever having any production. And just on the downgrade of it he sold out to Ben Andrews. And I think Wes fooled around there and went to Oklahoma and made some money. But Bill went broke. He drank a good deal.
  • O.- Why was it so many of the oil men drank so heavily?
  • C.- Well, they're just like any other boom people, call them boom. It was more or less that way. Them days people--I don't know--looks like them days everybody--that was really the downfall of old man John Sharp and Lee Haroldson was both of them drank too much.
  • O.- In Dallas?
  • C.- Yes. O. Even before the boom?
  • C.- Yes, And people like that, just like a saloon keeper was telling me one day, in 1908 that we'd have prohibition in less than 10 years. And I said, "What are you talking about?" He said, "Well, I tell you, you can remember back---- end of tape