Part of: Allison Nash oral history (2 objects)
Allison Nash oral history - Allison Nash oral history
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- ZARA DEHRI: Okay, this is Zara Dehri interviewing Allison Nash for the second interview. It is March
- 1, 2021 at 1:05p.m. Mountain Standard Time or 2:05p.m. Central Standard Time. I’m speaking from
- Sugar Land, Texas and Allison is speaking from Prescott, Arizona. So the floor is all yours now.
- ALLISON NASH: Well, I guess, one thing that I wanted to mention was that
- I felt very fortunate to be born at the time that I was born and to have become a young adult
- at a time when there was so much change beginning to happen in society that, you know, I really felt
- that it was, you know, an honor to be part of this great change that was
- happening. Not just in, you know, in the antiwar movement or the back-to-the-land movement or the
- home birth movement, but just in general, there was so much change happening in society and.
- To be young and to be, you know, full of energy at that time was just
- truly, you know, a gift and so I’ve always felt very fortunate to be part of that time.
- And I think one thing that I hadn't really mentioned a lot when I first moved to Austin was
- some of the other activities that I was involved with prior to the home birth to the,
- you know, within the antiwar movement there was the guerrilla theater troupe. The Bertolt
- Brecht Memorial guerrilla theater troupe. That was really at you know at some points in my life very,
- very dominant and a very strong part of of who I was and what I was doing, and it was
- really marvelous. A group of people, we would get together and do sort of spoofy satirical comedy of
- what was taking place, you know, in the politics of the country. And we would, you know,
- go all over UT campus launching spontaneous little events, and it was really a great group of people,
- and a great time. And so, and I think also that it was important to know how
- little childbirth had changed from the 50s -- from the 1950s, to the 1970s, that there was still,
- that women were so out of control of what was happening to their bodies at that time in
- that. It's that lack of control that that brought people to the idea of having their babies at home
- and even women who didn't necessarily think of themselves as being feminist or being part of a
- movement were, you know, they were. They just didn't realize that they were. That they were
- demanding that they had the right to control their birth and that they had the right to say how their
- babies would be born and in what environment their babies would be born and make decisions about the
- birth of their child and not be ridiculed for breastfeeding or not be ridiculed for having
- their other children at the birth or having their husbands participate in the birth. And
- I think that's really important to note too, that for so many women who didn't think of themselves
- as feminists, they were definitely taking on that role and teaching their children that too
- so. I think that that's an important fact that needs to be brought up.
- DEHRI: Definitely. NASH: And um. Let me see.
- And I thought I would mention one thing when we're talking about the antiwar movement
- at the beginning of my time was that my father, who was a career military man, I was very
- concerned about how he was going to just take my activities, when he would think of all of that,
- because I was the oldest child and always a bit of a rebel at home. And I think that is the role
- that the oldest always takes but you know my dad was a very strict dad and, and so I and my mother.
- Because my dad had assignments where he wasn't allowed to take his family, my mother, who wasn't
- used to having to the reigns of control at home, would have to take those over, and I think she
- got really excited by that and even though she never said anything more or acted, did anything
- that I perceive just sort of being feminist I think that she was kind of silently rooting for
- the whole thing and, uh, never objected to any of my antiwar activities and my father, although he
- would shake his head, I remember in one occasion, in particular, he said -- he looked at me,
- said, “If you're not an idealist when you're 20, there's something wrong with your heart.
- If you're still an idealist when you're 30, then there's something wrong with your head.”
- DEHRI: Oh, my God. NASH: I was 20 when he said that to me and on
- my 30th birthday, I called him up and said, “Dad I think, you know, I don't think there's anything
- wrong with my head, but I’m still am idealist.” DEHRI: Oh wow that's good to hear.
- NASH: Yeah, so I think we both got a good laugh out of that, and, you know, as he got older,
- I think he started seeing the light a little bit more. So that was something to mention.
- And I thought I would mention, too, that, you know, the births that we did took place
- in all kinds of different environments. We had birth in converted school buses,
- in un- airconditioned homes in the middle of Texas,
- on screen porches in bathrooms, inadvertently in bathrooms, in bathtubs, again inadvertently,
- UT housing. The furthest we traveled was probably New Jersey, when we went to Princeton to help out
- a friend there and West Virginia so. We were in all kinds of environments. I think some people
- did births in teepees. I never did, but I do think there was one that happened in a teepee. So
- it was. It was very, very interesting. DEHRI: Yeah. I had no
- idea it was, um, in places like those. NASH: Yeah yeah I mean houses with no
- electricity, although it was one of our mandates that you had to have a phone and electricity.
- You know, over time, there were houses that were without electricity or without a phone and,
- you know, at some in some areas we would feel comfortable in that in some areas we wouldn't.
- Most of us in Austin and in Texas did have phones and electricity,
- but I remember one house in particular. This family had just finished, they had
- their when they had their first child they were living in this tiny little sort of
- quickly put together, sort of a tiny house, I think you would call it today's
- language. But they came in, we had a, over time we opened up our own birth center
- where we did prenatal care and taught classes, so this was in the mid-, well sort of in the
- later 70s, like from ’78, ’79, ’80 time frame. And so they'd had a baby at our birth center because
- they lived out in the country, and they were living in this tiny little house without a lot
- of the requirements for electricity or phone, but for their second baby, which was two and a
- half years later, they had spent a great deal of time and money and built themselves a really nice
- house and they were rushing to get it completed in time to have their baby at the home because
- they really wanted their baby born in their home. So I remember that she went into labor and she
- called and said, “We just finished painting the bedroom yesterday and now I’m in labor
- and it's all done.” So we went out to them, and it was a beautiful house, I mean a nice
- big, beautiful house and they had the bedroom had basically freshly painted walls and a bed,
- and that was pretty much it. You know, maybe a little table to put all of our equipment on
- and after, when the baby was born, he had the cord around his neck like two or three times. It was
- an unusually long cord. So we clamped and cut the cord and wound it around his neck,
- and then, after the baby was born, while we were waiting for the placenta, I thought okay, well,
- this the cord was so long that the clamp was at the end of it and there was a long stretch of cord
- before you got to close to where the placenta was so I wanted to move the clamp a little bit
- closer, so that there would be a little bit better traction so. I put another clamp on
- to where, closer and then I did the first clamp and when I ended the first clamp the pressure
- that had built up in for the blood between the two clamps cause the cord to rise up like a snake,
- and then swirl around, splattering blood all over these freshly painted walls.
- DEHRI: Oh, God. NASH: Everyone was in shock and then,
- of course, hysterical laughter because it was just such a process of painting those walls
- and getting ready for the birth and then, you know, when this occurred. So there were funny
- moments at times like those. And another birth story that I wanted to talk about was
- another one involving children, which were my favorite births were the ones where children were
- because they, for the most part they injected humor and kept things, kept things exciting.
- And this little boy was about six years old, five or six years old, and he was the second child and
- there was the fifth child was on its way to being born. Now, the oldest child was on the school
- field trip at this time, so the kids at home were six, four, and two and then the new baby was being
- born. And the father was really anxious to get the two older kids out of the house because,
- you know, they were running around and creating a lot of havoc and although it was fine with all of
- us it was making him a nervous wreck. So he had called some friends to come and take the boys
- and the oldest boy didn't want to go ‘cause he wanted to be there when the baby was born,
- so I talked to the father who agreed that the boys could come back when the time was right,
- so I remember leaning over and saying to him, “Don't worry. I’ll make you a promise that when
- babies ready to be born I’ll call you so you can come back home.” And he looked at me and he said,
- “You promise, Allison?” and I said “I promise.” So sure enough, the kids left and a few hours later,
- the baby was ready to be born, and so I called the friend's house and asked to speak with him,
- and I said, “Okay it's time to come home. The baby's ready to be born”
- and there was this pause and he goes, “Well, Allison, we just put in a movie.”
- DEHRI: [laugh] NASH: And
- I said, “Well you don't have to come home. If you want to watch the movie you can watch the movie”
- and he said, “Okay, I think I’m going to stay and watch the movie”
- and I said, “Okay” and I hung up the phone and probably about 70 seconds later it rang
- and it was him and he said, “I want to come to the birth.” And I said, “I'll send someone
- to come get you. What about your brother, does he want to come?” and so I heard him hollering over,
- “Hey” I think his name was Torruco, “Hey Torruco, want to come to the birth?” and I didn't hear,
- I could hear the little voice answering but I couldn't hear what he was saying, and then
- I heard the older boy saying, “Are you sure? Remember Mom said, ‘this is the very last one.’”
- DEHRI: That’s adorable. NASH: So he wanted to make sure he got there,
- because it was very last one, and it turned out, Mom was right, it was the very last one.
- So, I think those were the main things I wanted to say was that but and another thing too is that
- when I was perusing all of our pamphlets and in the educational materials that we provided, and,
- you know, the little charts and everything. I was really impressed with how together we were.
- I don't think I really took that into account at the time, how we, you know, really put together
- this educational booklet and provided charts and graphs for people to keep track of their,
- you know, postpartum experience and to make sure that we had all the information we needed to
- monitor the baby and the mother self after the birth and during the pregnancy and I
- was thinking, wow, you know, we did good. DEHRI: Yeah I think the pamphlets were really
- impressive, um, I’m curious though. Did most of, I guess you'd call them clients, the pregnant women,
- did you guys get them through word of mouth? Like is that how A.L.M.A. spread?
- NASH: Yeah it was pretty much word of mouth, I don't remember we didn't do any advertising at
- all. It was all word of mouth. But it was very, you know, the women initially the women were going
- to the People’s Clinic, and the People's Free Clinic and after a while, after just a few years,
- People’s realized that they were getting so many pregnant women
- and post pregnancy postpartum and just women's health issues that they dedicated Tuesday night
- to women's health care. So the only clients they would see on Tuesdays were pregnant women
- and women with, you know, women's health issues. So, and that was the night that I worked and
- gradually, over time, many of the other midwives also kind of spend time working at the clinic
- which is, you know, an important place to work if you're working in that field. You learn as you,
- you know, about pregnancy more about pregnancy and the importance of iron levels in the blood and
- we had first hand knowledge of the health, the level of health that our clients were
- because we were working with them during their pregnancy, you know, in a clinical setting.
- So because of that, the word, it was pretty well known,
- it was, you know, the alternative community in Austin, although large, was not that large.
- People knew about it by word of mouth and we were busy, we were very busy. I mean we, you know,
- there were more than one occasions when we had three or four babies born within a 24 hour period.
- DEHRI: I can’t remember if we, if I asked this previously, but do you mind telling me what the
- acronym A.L.M.A. stands for again? NASH: Right it stands for Austin
- Lay Midwives Association. DEHRI: Okay I think I did ask,
- I just wanted to be safe. Thank you. NASH: So, um,
- I think that was mainly it. I just felt like I was sort of
- not real prepared the first time. I haven't done this before,
- so I wasn't real sure how to go about it all. DEHRI: Oh no worries this is my first time
- as well, and I think you did well, but I appreciate the second interview as well.
- NASH: Mm-hmm. DEHRI: Oh no sorry go ahead.
- NASH: I’m wondering about the pictures that I sent you. Are they going to be
- used, are they going to -- I'm just, I’m just curious as to how this works,
- it's an oral history. DEHRI: I’m not entirely sure.
- I think the photos can be something that you just send me outside of this, but if you think
- they're important to what you're saying, all we need for this is you describing the photos.
- NASH: Okay yeah. Well, you know, mainly the photos were of
- documents that we used, you know, the information that we shared with our people with our clients
- and then some actual pictures of birth, which, you know, a little harder to describe.
- But I thought that the, you know, it was important to sort of see, you know,
- what was being offered to people, you know, as well as just sort of follow up with the story
- to show the definition of what was happening in terms of the Thursday night meetings when
- we would have childbirth classes and the booklet that people were given
- and the instructions and that sort of thing. DEHRI: Yeah I think they were a nice additional
- piece to this. NASH:
- But, so that was mainly if I think that you know, the main thing, I guess, I wanted to emphasize was
- was, you know, the power that women had in taking over their birth experience and how
- important it was to all of them, and we did have people in for a lot of other reasons. We had,
- ;ike I said before, we had some Evangelical Christians who didn't want men involved in the
- care of their pregnant. Women and we had you know, some people who just couldn't afford Brackenridge,
- you know, even they didn't quite qualify for free care and they just couldn't afford it,
- so they came to us. And I think, you know, most of those people had a very successful birth and
- I think a lot of those people had a different experience than they were anticipating and
- appreciated it. So, so that that helped too. That made changes in people who hadn't already
- made those changes in their own lives. DEHRI: Oh, I had forgotten to ask this but
- was - were all the deliveries and. postnatal care, was this all free for the women?
- NASH: No, we did charge a fee. DEHRI: Okay.
- NASH: But it was a kind of a sliding scale fee. And it was funny because the booklet that I
- looked at it said that our fee was $250. So that was what we, I think when we first started out,
- it was free. We were just doing it freely because something we felt so important and so,
- uou know so necessary, so we weren't charging it, but it quickly became a profession, where,
- you know, it was we were so in demand that there was no other way, we could work at any
- other type of employment and keep up with it. So at that point we started charging a fee because
- we had to pay rent and also we opened up the birth center and we needed to pay rent on the
- birth center and things like that, but people were responsible for buying their own supplies.
- And we just went to drugstores and picked up their supplies, but then companies started
- opening up that provided birth packs and they were able to order from them. But, yeah $250
- was the going rate for a home birth in 1977. DEHRI: Okay, one final thing that I’m curious
- about was for the, your guerrilla theater troupe, I just wanted to know what some of the
- plays that you guys would put on were. NASH: Well, you know I don't really remember all
- the plays. I know that one was the one I sent you the picture in, I was a driver for Henry Kissinger
- and we did one about the Rockefellers. And I remember that one because we used,
- there was, we used children. The Rockefeller family had had a lot of kids and we borrowed
- the children of Mary Birdsong, I think that was her name, Mary Birdsong and then some other people
- and used their children as part of our theater troupe and that was pretty interesting. Got them
- all dressed up in finery and stood them up in a line so. It was pretty politically oriented.
- Making fun of the Republicans overall. DEHRI:
- Okay, um, if there's nothing else you'd like to add, I can stop the recording now.
- NASH: Okay. DEHRI: Okay.