Interview with Dr. Alex Tan
- Dr. George Daniels (GD): Today is June 4th, 2020. I'm George Daniels at The University of Alabama,
- and I am talking today with Dr. Alex Tan who is in Pullman, Washington, at the Murrow College
- of Communication at Washington State University. This is for the AEJMC Trailblazers for Diversity
- Oral History project. We need to let you know that this particular interview will be archived at the
- AEJMC headquarters in Columbia, South Carolina and the Briscoe Center of American History at
- The University of Texas at Austin, and we want to think, Dr. Tan for talking with us today. Dr. Tan,
- you've been at Washington State for a long time. What's it like working at—in Pullman, Washington?
- Dr. Alex Tan (AT): Well, Pullman Washington is a small college town,
- and Washington State University is a large public university — fairly large for this area.
- And it's a good quality of life in the community and the University, especially under
- the current president, [who] is focused and dedicated to diversity and to the inclusion and
- the elimination of racism. [T]hat's always been the climate here in terms of university
- administration, at least for the past three presidents, and I worked for four presidents.
- And so, it's an exciting place to be in. At the same time, we don't have the problems,
- issues of larger cities, and sometimes that's difficult because we are isolated, and, we, the
- faculty have to make a conscious effort to be part of the real world where the real problems occur.
- But it's a good experience,
- GD: You've been there for a long time, but right now your role is special
- assistant for research and graduate studies.
- AT: Special advisor to the College for Research and Graduate Studies. In that capacity, I help
- the college, Bruce — who is the current dean — and the faculty advance our research programs and
- the graduate program. So that is what am doing, and I teach. I also teach. I teach one class
- a semester, and I continue my research and writing. That is my role at the college today.
- GD: Now you're originally from the Philippines, correct?
- AT: Yes, I am an immigrant from the Philippines. I came to the United States at
- age 18 to start graduate school. So, that that's fairly young for grad school,
- but I finished college. You can do this in the Philippines at an early age. So,
- I am an immigrant. I came to the United States, the University of Wisconsin, Madison, at age 18,
- and this was at the height of the late 1960s. That tells you how, how long I've
- been around. [That was] at the height of the civil rights movement and the anti-Vietnam War
- protests. I was born in the Philippines. I am a U.S. citizen, and I am an immigrant.
- GD: Now I've got to ask you. We're doing this interview on June 4th,
- 2020, and as we're doing this interview, there are many, many incidents of civil unrest happening
- around the United States and actually many protests around the world. You must have an
- interesting context to look at these 2020 events given when you arrived in the United States.
- AT: Well, there is some similarity between the civil rights demonstrations in the late 60’s,
- which was led—spearheaded by young activists of all races,
- led by black activists. I remember the Black Panthers. They were a credible,
- respected group — at least in my circles at that time, to today; and today, the protests are led
- also, [and] are participated in by a multicultural group of young people. The civil rights
- demonstrations led to some change. Not enough, but some change. And I hope that these demonstrations
- in protest of George Floyd's murder will lead the change also. And I'm glad our leaders,
- specifically President Obama, are neutralizing the poison from some of our other leaders.
- So, I see a similarity. I see a similarity, and [I’m] hopeful that real change will result.
- In fact, I must tell you. I wrote a book — the manuscript is done — on who is racist,
- why racism matters. This is not a textbook. I told my publisher I wanted this for a general audience,
- but I had to rewrite large portions of it given the current crisis. So, I'm hopeful the protests,
- the show of solidarity today, which I see some similarities in — among young people
- especially — with the civil rights demonstrations in the late 60’s, will result in real change.
- GD: So you arrived here in the 60’s as a master’s student at The University of
- Wisconsin-Madison. What was it like in Madison at that time?
- AT: Madison was and continues to be a very progressive,
- very progressive city — an island in the middle of conservative communities. So,
- when I arrived in Madison, I was introduced and educated in issues of race, issues of diversity,
- issues of social injustice, from some professors but mostly from peers — from other students.
- I remember Paul Soglin, who was the leader of the SDS.
- I mean, you're a different you're a younger generation, so this is history to you. But he
- was the leader of the Students for a Democratic Society, and he eventually was elected mayor. So
- that is the type of environment I was socialized into as an 18-year-old, as a master's student.
- GD: Now, you mentioned that the city,
- Madison was progressive. But the state of Wisconsin, maybe not so progressive?
- Speaker3: That is correct, and I think that that is reflected — except for [in] Milwaukee,
- you have a working-class population in Milwaukee. I think that is reflected in some of the politics
- and in the stronghold that conservatives have [there] — I was going to mention a political
- party, but I should stray away from that — [and] still hold in some of the rural areas.
- Well, [it’s] the same thing in Washington state. There is group of
- far-right conservatives in eastern Washington that want eastern Washington to be a separate state.
- Because you have the West Side, we find all the progressives and liberals there and, in eastern
- Washington — except for Pullman where we are — [and] in neighboring Moscow, in Idaho — where
- the University of Idaho is — we are surrounded by conservative communities. And this is not to
- put a value. Conservative is not necessarily bad, but it's just a difference in ideology.
- There are still remnants of white supremacists and Aryan Nations — not in not so much in Washington
- state as some in in eastern Washington cities and communities — but mostly in northern Idaho,
- which at one time was the headquarters of Butler,
- the head of the Aryan Nations. But he was thrown out by the Southern Poverty Law Center and
- actually [the] citizens of that of that community. So that is the environment I am in now. But the
- environment I was socialized into as a young grad student in Madison, Wisconsin, was very different.
- GD: Now you came to study science communication, but you had actually
- worked as a science writer or a journalist in the Philippines, correct?
- AT: I did. I worked right after graduating from college in the Philippines. I worked as
- a science journalist. I wrote science stories for national publications.
- And so, I pursued a master's in science agricultural journalism at that time. Now it's
- life sciences and environmental communication.
- And [I] work[ed] as a graduate assistant writing science stories for the University.
- No professional work in the United States. I don't have the experience of working as a professional
- journalist in the United States. All my experience writing was with the University of Wisconsin.
- GD: So what did you take up in terms of your research as a master's student?
- You recall some of your first projects that you did there at UW Madison.
- AT: Yes. At that time, one of the things I thought is — because we were introduced [as] grad students
- to research in the academy, especially in our field. — I went with the flow, the mainstream.
- No diversity research as a master's student. That began later on in Ph.D. school. So,
- I studied about effective ways of communicating science, especially agricultural news to the
- general public. So, it was all mainstream research — by mainstream I mean no focus on diversity.
- GD: Now, while that was mainstream, were there diverse researchers looking at those
- topics? In other words, were there people from underrepresented groups
- studying science communication and communication?
- AT: No, not at all. And that was true also of my Ph.D. work. In fact,
- there was a disconnect because what was happening outside of the
- classroom — you had all these protests and a discourse about racism —
- within the department, especially in journalism and mass and agricultural communication,
- almost all of the professors, all of the faculty were white male. In fact, I can't recall a single
- professor [or] faculty member of color at that time. Almost — well,
- not almost — all of my classmates were white men and women and some international students. No
- African Americans; no Hispanics; no Native Americans. So, there was a disconnect.
- Now the research that we were studying also at that time — this is a long time ago —
- no focus, no mention of diversity issues or racial issues, at least at least the articles
- we were studying. We were concerned with such things as media effects, a lot of theories,
- especially in Wisconsin. And so, there was this disconnect, what we were studying
- and what was happening outside in the real world. Now there were exceptions because the Ph.D. in
- mass communication and journalism in Wisconsin is interdisciplinary. So, we took courses outside.
- So, there were professors in medicine, in psychology
- and sociology who were studying issues of race and issues of diversity, in particular psychology.
- GD: So you went straight from your masters, finishing your master’s degree,
- into a Ph.D. program?
- AT: I took one year off and taught as an instructor at Cornell
- and then came back to Wisconsin.
- GD: What was Cornell like? I got to make sure we get that in there.
- AT: Well, Cornell was very similar to the University of Wisconsin; also in a small
- college town, but the same thing. Issues of race, racism, [and] diversity were not being studied in
- communication journalism departments. They were doing studies. These issues were being studied
- in sociology, political science, psychology a little bit. But in our field, hardly.
- GD: So you spent one year teaching there, then you went back to Madison
- to begin your Ph.D. program, this time in an interdisciplinary program
- where there was some attention to diversity, or people were studying issues that
- related to some of the things happening in the larger society. Talk about that experience.
- AT: Ok. I started asking questions. Why are being an immigrant and not having grown up,
- until 18 anyway, with the historical basis for the problems that we were facing at that time. So, I
- educated myself outside of the classroom on issues of racial injustice. And I sought out professors
- who are interested in those same issues, so that perhaps we could begin using science
- to shed some light on those issues and some understanding — and more importantly,
- to come up with some possible solutions. So, a lot of it was self-education reading.
- A lot of it was seeking out those professors who were interested in the same issues. And one
- professor in particular, has made an impression on me through all these years. Even today. His
- name is Leonard Berkowitz in psychology to start. He was one of the first researchers
- to study violence and aggression, and one of the first scholars using experimental methods
- to make the connection between what we see on television, violence in television and who are the
- victims and aggression in the real world. So that was what it was like studying in medicine. I had
- I had excellent mentors in the journalism and mass communication school. They were excellent
- researchers, scholars. People like Steve Casey who has passed on, passed away,
- some time ago, but we still read some of his articles. Jack McClaus and then people
- from outside of the school of journalism. So that was what it was like. I my early research
- followed mainstream research in our fields of media effects and a lot of heavy on theory,
- selective exposure, but then gradually towards the end of my Ph.D. program and especially as
- a young faculty member later on, I focused on the issues of diversity issues of racism.
- GD: Now, when you are a Ph.D. student, that would be about the first time that you were
- presenting papers, that was then AEJ. Correct?
- AT: Correct. AEJ. Yes. And those papers were media effects, selective exposure, theoretical concepts…
- And I presented papers in the communication theory and methodology division because until
- Lee Barrow established our division, that was the division to go to if you had theoretical papers.
- I remember in all of those, you know, all of those sessions,
- nothing… about nothing, about diversely, nothing about social injustice, and this was
- this is, what we were, the environment we were working on.
- GD: Now I got to go back and I want to make sure we understand everybody understands
- you just mentioned Dr. Lee Barrow, who was at one time head of communication
- theory methodology [CT and M] before he started the math division,
- but talk about your interactions with him, even at CT and M.
- AT: Yes, he was. He was an inspiration because he was… he was a person well respected
- for very good reason that I would have conversations with, I would have coffee with.
- And he motivated me to follow his work. That is, we should make AEJMC an organization
- that is sensitive, that does work on social injustice and racism and diversity. In fact,
- when I was AEJMC president many years ago, I initiated a movement
- to give Dr. Barrow a special award. I think it was a presidential award
- and we did it! And this was recognition for everything he had done, both as a teacher,
- a scholar, a mentor, as instrumental in getting our division established. So, he was a mentor.
- GD: Now you mentioned that you were AEJMC president.
- While we're speaking on that topic, let's talk about your involvement in the association.
- Person doesn't just become president. You must have found
- something that really attracted your attention and made you stay involved.
- AT: Well, yes, what attracted my attention? Two things. One: Journalism and mass communication
- have always been fields that are not taken, have not been taken as seriously in the academy
- and by policymakers as a legitimate, academic discipline. Ok, nothing wrong in being a strong
- professional field, but in comparison to fields like sociology, psychology, political science,
- most people outside of our field knew very little about what it was, what we were doing in terms of
- research, teaching, outreach. And so that was one of my motivations… Let's see, how can we as
- an organization, a membership and faculty elevate the status of our field within the academy? And
- that's by doing good research and that's by promoting ourselves in terms of
- the National Science Foundation. So, we recognize when we submit grants.
- AT: But the other motivation was I notice that in spite of all good intentions,
- it's a lot better today, in spite of a lot of good intentions diversity and social justice
- at that time, especially the early years, were not as much of a focus of the organization as some of
- us would like it to be. Now that's changed. I am so glad about the transition and under the
- leadership of recent presidents and councils and Jennifer, AEJ is very much today at the forefront
- of this movement to be inclusive, to look at all issues. And those were my two motivations.
- GD: So you would have been president in the 1980s or?
- AT: 1990s, 90s. Yeah, I think it was 1998 the Chicago Convention and you know what,
- one thing I'm really pleased about and proud of… You know how in AEJMC conventions… in AEJMC
- conventions, we have a keynote speaker? You know the. Yes, you're probably as
- a kid at that time, but you know what keynote speaker I got. Is Jesse Jackson.
- GD: Oh, wow, Okay!
- AT: And this was a full house. You should have seen the audience standing room only.
- And he spoke about how journalists can contribute to the movement for justice and
- then some of our members who were invited, I invited them on stage. I had a panel of scholars,
- prominent scholars coming to talk to Jesse Jackson's talk. Steve was there, Ellen Taylor,
- some of the historical figures in our field. But Jesse spoke for so long, so animated,
- that there was very little time for the panel discussion, reacting and stuff, but it worked
- out really well. And one of our members, her name will come to me in a minute, took the stage, asked
- me if she could read a poem to Jesse Jackson. And I said, sure. She read a very emotional poem,
- and the line that I remember was “Run Jesse, run,” for president. So,
- this was in the late 1990s, and that is something that I will cherish forever.
- GD: One of the things that we did some years ago is I worked with a colleague
- on researching the research presented in the minorities of communication division,
- and we found a number of papers written about Jesse Jackson. So, I'm wondering if maybe that
- might have sparked some people to do research even in his first campaigns in the 1980s. But then,
- as he continued to be a figure on the scene in the 1990s that there was a lot of interest
- in his political involvement and how we presented that in the media among those doing research.
- AT: I hope so. I'm sure there are other reasons, but that was part of my motivation
- is to get in the limelight prominent people who are who are conscious of these issues
- and who can bring the real world to our world, our academic world.
- GD: So you left Wisconsin with your Ph.D.
- and you began your professorial journey, I believe in Texas, is that right?
- AT: Texas Tech University. Another conservative environment but fairly
- progressive university. And actually, it was a Texas Tech where I began studying, researching
- people of color, the issues that were being faced, and I started
- looking at, first of all, content analysis, what was being presented in the media
- and then from there… from then going on to studies of political participation and
- then also looking at how the larger white mainstream population developed a bias,
- developed either explicit or subconscious racism towards groups of color. So because again,
- of the environment, there were large populations of Hispanic
- communities around Lubbock also some black communities,
- and I wondered how would they thrive in a general environment that was, that might
- not have been receptive enough. So, it was at Texas Tech where I began studying these issues.
- GD: Now when you joined the faculty there,
- were there other faculty from underrepresented racial groups or was that number pretty small?
- AT: No, not there was not. None. No representation. And although as a U.S.
- citizen, I didn't count myself because I'm looking at historically underrepresented
- minorities as I'm looking at when I talk about diversity.
- We were looking at historically underrepresented and marginalized communities. It was me.
- GD: What did that do to the research that you were doing? Did that make it perhaps challenging
- to research topics that that weren't a lot of other colleagues to collaborate with on papers
- and to co-author projects, to look for grants? What was that like as an assistant professor?
- AT: There was very little collaboration. The collaboration came with students.
- So, I had to recruit grad students,
- get them interested in these topics with some modicum of success because of a few of them really
- got interested in this topic and went on, a few for Ph.D. We didn't have a Ph.D. program then at
- Texas Tech and continued their research programs. But in terms of collaboration with faculty?
- Very, very little. Not because they didn't want to, [but] because they had other interests.
- GD: Now, Texas Tech is considered today a Hispanic serving institution, I don't know
- It have that designation then, but that might have been something that
- in terms of being in Texas, that there would be more people from
- Hispanic or Latino background that might influence the opportunities to do research in that area?
- AT: Yes, I think that is exactly what happened. And one of the good things
- about that center, they have a Hispanic center. It is funded by a
- big contribution from a former editor of the journal for a publisher who happens to be a
- white man. So, there are just alliances that even today I think we should be looking at.
- GD: So you went through the tenure track. You became an associate professor
- and then eventually you did some leadership of the graduate program there at Texas Tech?
- AT: Yes. I became director of the graduate program and that is how I was able to recruit grad
- students to work with me. And I rose through the ranks to the professor at Texas Tech University.
- And it was a good experience again. I tell myself, “Well, this is a… I told myself this was a social
- laboratory. I could study these.” I was interested in interactions between different races.
- And so that was my career at Texas Tech University.
- GD: When we talk about diversifying the faculty,
- we know that much of that comes from diversifying the ranks of graduate students.
- Can you talk a little bit about maybe how we find students from these underrepresented backgrounds
- to get them into our graduate programs at places like Wisconsin or Texas Tech?
- AT: Yes, I think we should recruit early. We should recruit at undergrad programs, which
- we should look at universities, colleges, programs that have good representations of people of
- color including the historically black colleges, including the native colleges, and we have a few
- in the northwest, including colleges, let us say in El Paso, Texas, which are heavily Hispanic. So,
- we start early to send our faculty, hopefully faculty of color. But that's difficult to do
- because there's just still today there very few. Talk about, okay, what does it mean to be
- a grad student? What does it mean to have a Ph.D. to uplift them in terms of aspirations? You can do
- this. You can do meaningful research. So that's one way. The second way, I think, is to seek out
- funding. Special fellowships and scholarships… Ford Foundation has a good scholarship program.
- AT: So does Bill Gates program for undergrads. And we have to do this carefully because
- depending on who the leaders are in national government, like today.
- So, we don't run afoul of laws and policies. But there are ways of doing that looking for private
- sponsors, for example, and they can specify who the scholarships are for, looking at
- defining the criteria in ways that will attract minority students, but do not necessarily mention
- that this is for Hispanics or Native Americans. So, I think scholarships and recruitment are very
- important. Once they are with us is to provide a culture, an environment that is supportive.
- So that they don't feel out of place, that they are not victims of racism.
- It's not easy, but it can be done.
- GD: So we reached the mid 1980s you've been leading the graduate program there at Texas Tech,
- and I guess at that time it was just a school, right? It wasn't a college at that point. Correct?
- AT: Yeah. Exactly. Department.
- GD: Department. And then you have an opportunity to go to the northwest to
- become part of the faculty at Washington State. Talk about that opportunity.
- AT: I was actually nominated
- to be department chair. We were a department at that time because there was a reorganization
- bringing together at that time speech, communication and the media fields. So,
- I sent in my application. I was nominated and I was selected to be the first department chair of
- this reorganization. And then after a couple of years, we, the faculty and I developed a plan to
- restructure the department as a school and name it after our alumnus, Edward R. Murrow.
- So, at that from the night from 1980s until 2006, I was mostly in administrative work
- at Washington State University.
- GD: So that was a lot of that's a lot different than working
- on research like you were doing at Texas Tech. Yes, I was at adjustment.
- AT: I tried to continue my research with especially working with assistance
- from grad students and continuing my publication. And it was at that time
- actually when I got more involved in AEJMC and with Dr. Barrow
- and got involved in issues of diversity at AEJMC.
- GD: So you're telling me that Dr. Barrow got you involved beyond just presenting papers,
- doing other things? Yes. You remember a couple of things,
- maybe committees you served on or projects you worked on it with him.
- AT: Well, United was so long ago, but one of the projects was… When the
- division was established, my division, okay, how do we reach out to the membership? Well,
- this was actually with Jennifer. Jennifer is great, by the way, if she ever sees this
- because I noticed, okay, I was one of the first members of the MAC division, and so I shifted my
- presentations from theory and methodology to MAC. But I noticed we were speaking to the choir.
- You look at the audience, look at the membership. We were maybe 80%, 90% people of color.
- And I wondered Lee and I thought, okay, how do we reach these prominent scholars that those
- that are not attending our meetings? So that was one of the things we try to do. Okay, we get
- the Steve JV, the Max McCombs, you know, our prominent scholars
- join in, join in. And I think we were we were sort of successful and expand the membership
- because we… we I mean people of color, we can't do this alone, we should be leaders.
- We need allies of people who think likewise not necessarily the same skin color,
- and there are some of those folks around. And that was one of the things we tried to do.
- GD: Can you think of any anybody in particular who really decided I want
- to be an ally? I want to be an active member of MAC, maybe at that time, who's still around?
- AT: Ah, I cannot. I know Steve was. He's not around, Jack MacLeod, was retired,
- but I think if you look at some of the recent
- writings of Max. There is this element in it, and I'm just so pleased that the progression because
- I have often been told I don't know how accurate this is, that I was the first person of color to
- be color, to be president of AEJMC. But look at what's happened, look at our president,
- vice president-elect thereby cut. So it's... And look at the cooperation, the support shown by
- the Commission Status of Women, Commission on the Status of Minority, the different divisions, MAC
- theory and methodology. I noticed some one of their leaders saying, we're with you.
- So, that is what we're looking for. And I think that happened with this vision.
- GD: I do want to go back to something you mentioned a moment ago, you specifically mentioned
- Max, and you're talking about Max McCombs specifically. Yes,
- yes. And you said that within his research, he made sure that issues of diversity came through
- even in some of his data sets, how he did analyses. Speak a little bit more
- about that because I think that's important to mention when we talk about diversity.
- AT: I think Max influence has permeated a lot of the research on
- agenda setting now, agenda melding, because you look at topics and issues
- very much involved in this. So, looking at, let's say, topics or issues of social
- injustice especially what's going on today. And how do people form,
- agendas, opinions? And that is an example of specific issues that are of interest to us.
- GD: So what you're saying is diversity and issues of social justice they don't just get addressed
- with people who are from the marginalized groups. They also get addressed by everyone
- addressing those issues within their research and developing
- opportunities to measure the degree to which diversity is influential happening.
- AT: Correct. And that is that is the goal. So, it's not only us who are doing this research
- because there are small minorities of people mainstream who will suspect our
- research. So, for example, me when I started doing this, why are you doing this study again of
- Asian-Americans? Blacks of Hispanics? What is the general, this was early on in my career,
- what is the general significance of this? Why don't you study White discrimination?
- AT: So that doesn't happen anymore, of course, but early on. And so, this is why it's important for
- our scholars, regardless of color, to study these issues. Science is science.
- GD: I do want to make sure that we talk a little bit more about the work that you've been doing
- at the Edward R. Murrow School and college. Now in particular, you brought together some
- units that were separate, and you worked in that role for a long time.
- How has that gone? What were the challenges in doing that as an administrator?
- AT: Some of the challenges were the silo mentality protective of what it is that I do,
- the perception that it's the pie is constant. And if I get something, you lose something. So,
- it's the silo mentality so it was a matter of getting people together, and
- research has a lot to do with it and teaching that we are an interdisciplinary field. The issues
- that we talk about across this little subfield, for example, issues in journalism, how to cover
- topics that that might be sensitive. So, this bringing people together, convincing them that
- getting them to work collaboratively was one of the challenges.
- GD: Do you find that the school or the college today is more
- interested and excited about interdisciplinary work because maybe there are more grants
- that require that those financial realities necessitate units working more closely together?
- AT: Yes, I think that is that is an accurate observation.
- If we want grants, there has to be collaborative, interdisciplinary,
- especially the big grants and the complexity of the of the problems. One of the things that I'm
- trying to infuse the faculty ever since I was an administrator is that is that our research,
- regardless of methodology, qualitative quantitative critical should
- be geared towards finding solutions and understanding real social problems,
- not all this theory, abstract theory stuff. And so, if it's in social problems
- are complex, for example, health disparities, racism and racism,
- then you need to get groups of people together from different disciplines.
- GD: Within the university that you are part of, you're in an area of the state and you mentioned
- this earlier, that is quite different from a large metropolitan area where you might easily be able
- to attract faculty who want to live in the big city. Do you find that getting graduate students
- and faculty from underrepresented groups is still a challenge today in the college?
- AT: Yes, it is not only the moral college, but the university as a whole.
- When I left the directorship of a school that time I work for a few years for the
- president and the provost, and one of my assignments was to develop and implement
- a strategic plan to increase the diversity of the faculty looking at underrepresented
- populations. And what you mentioned was exactly one of the one of the issues that
- we were faced with. Location, location, because our faculty is from underrepresented groups,
- need to feel at home, need to feel secure, need to need to be in a culture that is supportive
- and need to have community is not only within the university but outside that they can relate to.
- And so those are sometimes conditions that that we find to be challenges to recruiting a diverse
- faculty. But we came up with different plans that only the college. But I worked for the entire
- university at that time, so we came up plans and hopefully how to neutralize this disadvantage.
- GD: Within the college is that a little bit easier? What role does accreditation play
- in kind of pushing the focus to that area?
- AT: Accreditation is good because the diversity is not only one of the core values, but one of the
- criteria. Now we are not accredited. We have never gone up for accreditation because of a strong
- professional emphasis in the undergrad program. I hope my personal hope is that for that to change.
- Recruiting faculty of color from underrepresented U.S. groups… is still very much a challenge and
- the problem in our college. We have a fairly good contingent by that and maybe maybe a third
- of the faculty are international and eventually they become we become US citizens. But I'm talking
- about African Americans, Native Americans, Hispanic Americans. That is where I think
- our focus should be. We have not been very successful. Neither has the university.
- GD: Do you find yourself mentoring a lot of the faculty who are coming in initially as
- international and then their status would change, but even getting acclimated to
- the environment and the United States since you went through that many years ago?
- AT: Yes, and not the only international faculty, but actually when I was in the president's office
- faculty of color from underrepresented U.S. groups and also grad students and this is
- Speaker3: One thing that we're emphasizing there need to be exemplars, there needs to be
- models. So, I can do this. You're in that position. You're a professor. So how do I
- get there? I have this problem. How do we solve it? And so not only me, but the small number of
- faculty of color in the university are mentors to students, not only grad students, undergrad
- students, actually. So, this is why it's so important to they have a diverse faculty.
- GD: I do want to make sure we talk a little bit about a couple of projects that you worked on.
- One that really caught my attention as I was looking at
- some of your many, many books and projects is this particular monograph you wrote about
- Asian-Americans and why… what makes Asian-Americans
- get connected or not get connected? Can you talk about your work in that area?
- AT: Yes. So, looking at Asian-Americans as a group is part of the general research
- orientation, but there have been a lot of speculation and studies looking at different,
- minority groups and one of the fallacies of this approach is people, policymakers included,
- who look at our groups as monolithic groups. When we talk about Hispanics, well, that's
- made up of many different ethnicities. Same thing with Asian and Asian Americans.
- The concept of model minority is destructive. And what happens then when we talk in terms
- of this, general classifications is pitting subconsciously, perhaps one group against another.
- So, what I'm looking at is, okay how, is the larger media, mainstream media looking at this,
- at these issues? And that's one of the problems we're in this monolithic groups failing to look
- at the individual differences. Now, I must say. There's there being the significant progress,
- especially in the last two years. You're probably aware, AP has said, do not use “illegal” to
- describe immigrants. A person is not illegal. Instead, break it down from where and why.
- How did they enter the United States? And AP, I think also recently, ASME also said when an act
- is clearly, according to the reporter and experts, a racist act, call it racist, do not say racially
- insensitive. What is that? I think there is movement, but one of the things I am trying to do
- is not to look at groups monolithically and instead, for example, in the issue of
- media coverage is to look at specific groups, and I think there is there is movement.
- GD: Now, you just talked about the guidance that the Associated Press is providing in the area of
- race and racism, but you just mentioned a few minutes ago in your in your discussion
- having to update your most recent book project that's about to come out on racism. Talk about
- that project. What will people be able to get from that project? What are you providing there?
- AT: Well, this is this is a transition for me because all my other books have been academic
- books, including one on prejudice, but I thought the publisher agreed,
- let's try to reach a larger audience. And when I when I finished this manuscript,
- I was talking mostly about microaggressions, racial profiling, unconscious racism. But now
- the murder of George Floyd pushes hate-crimes to the center and using explicit, explicit racism.
- And so, what I am trying to do is, first of all, cover both topics,
- illustrate, backed by theory,
- how many of the acts ordinary people do day to day are activated by unconscious biases. But
- there will be a… and what are the consequences? I talk about media, for example, how the media can
- reject these images or biases on health care, certainly the judicial system, law enforcement.
- And then I said, I'm revising it to put more of an emphasis on possible solutions, not mine,
- but from people like President Obama, who has a whole site devoted to this and also from research.
- GD: So you finishing another book, I think this is like book number nine or 10?
- AT: Yes. Looks something like that. That's where I focus attention recently.
- GD: What's next for you after that?
- AT: Well, we have a Ph.D. student, one of my students, we co-author,
- we are writing a book on a deadline for a major press on Muslim women, for Afghan women,
- because that's another problem we have is Islamophobia, particularly women, Muslim women.
- So that is that is going to occupy my time and attention with my grad student. Our deadline is
- early spring next year. But it's, you know, it's a labor of joy.
- GD: When does one decide to stop doing research or do you just do that
- as long as you can? I don't find many people who can say they've been
- doing research and be active as an academic for almost 50 years, right?
- AT: Yeah. Well, I think the motivation has to be there and the motivation is to help bring about
- change and the way academics, including myself, can do this is using our platform—Professor—to
- do research that will help policymakers and general public understand these issues and
- perhaps look for possible solutions. I think that is the motivation. And if the motivation is there,
- so long as people can do it, they'll do it by getting in research and writing.
- GD: What do you think AEJMC can do specifically as an organization
- to facilitate that kind of work being done?
- AT: Oh, I think they're doing a lot already. They have the Senior Scholars Program,
- Junior Scholars program. I think they have awards for research in our field, simplest as recognition
- of this research in the same way that we recognize, okay, the best paper in political
- communication, best paper in communication theory and methodology is elevate our presence and give…
- recognize doesn't have to be financial work, be a plaque at the general meeting
- and I think get the divisions and commissions working together to realize that this is a problem
- and this is why I think the tragedy of George Floyd is a catalyst for action, including our
- field AEJMC. So, you can see I get excited about this as I continue writing and doing research.
- GD: I got you. Dr Alex Tan from the Murrow College of Communication,
- Washington State University. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us today.
- AT: Well, thank you, George. It's been a pleasure and thank you for doing this.